NTL at fault - not me!

[cherylsmith1982]

Hi
My next door neighbour just knocked on the door and apologised for opening one of our letters - although it was addressed to his house, it was in my name. I live at 82A - he lives at 82. So it was incorrectly address.
My neighbour works away for quite long periods at a time.
Anyway I'll get to the point, NTL have now added a 10.00 late payment charge to the bill - in which they sent to the wrong address. And also, they have added a 15.00 service charge which I have no clue to what that is for, as I have never paid it before and dont intend to start paying it now. (this is my phonebill I'm talking about aswell, forgot to mention that bit).

So, after a call to NTL, they have refused to drop the late payment charge because they say that our address is correct on their system. They dont care that we have the letter to hand which IS incorrectly addressed. And also, they said that the bill DOES NOT include a service charge - but yet again, it clearly states on this letter SERVICE CHARGES - 15.00.

Is this matter doesnt get sorted I will definitely be cancelling my policy with them because they are getting to be more hardwork than what they are worth. Not only that, everytime I try to ring them, I am struggling to get through to the customer services. 45 minutes today is quite good compared to the last few times, in which I got sick of waiting after nearly an hour and half, so hung up.

Where do i go from here? Any advice appreciated
thanks

[LixeL]

I had similar thing with BT once, they installed a new line somewhere further up the road (about 1/4 mile up the road), got our house number on their system and then kept trying to bill us.

Everytime I rung them up and told them it was like arguing with a brick wall to convince them they had the wrong address and that I wasn't the person with the BT line (was with NTL and had been for a couple of years). Each time they said they would stop the bills and correct it.

Then about a month later another reminder would arrive, this went on for about six months, until they then sent a court summons. I rang up and went ballistic and it finally was sorted.

The moral of the story is, its not NTL, its endemic of customer service these days in most firms, and in reality its probably not really the customer service people. They are probably so stressed with non working systems, crud wages and so on they dont have a chance to do the job right.

I would suggest a letter (recorded) to the complaints department, simple and clear, they have the wrong address, they have made a charge because they have the wrong address and you didnt get the bill in time, please cancel the charge. Include a photocopy of the incorrectly addressed bill which also shows the disputed service charge.

If you dont get a reply within 2 weeks, resend another copy of the letter with a note stating this is the second letter.

This way, with it done in writing you should have recorded documentation.

Good luck.

[cherylsmith1982]

Ok, then thats what I shall do!
Will get a nice polite letter typed up tomorrow.

I completely understand its not the customer services staffs fault - but for them to deny that we are being charged a 'service charge' when we have it in black and white seems to be ignorance more than anything. Surely this is the kind of thing that they are employed to tackle.

thanks for the reply.

[madrob]

Originally Posted by cherylsmith1982

Ok, then thats what I shall do!
Will get a nice polite letter typed up tomorrow.

I completely understand its not the customer services staffs fault - but for them to deny that we are being charged a 'service charge' when we have it in black and white seems to be ignorance more than anything. Surely this is the kind of thing that they are employed to tackle.

thanks for the reply.

I think in most cases 'customer services' are solely employed to fob people off. However, I did get somewhere yesterday when the first thing I said to the Customer Services Rep was 'I wish to make a formal complaint in writing, can ou give the address please?". Which was met with - "have you spoken to a manager about your problems - I can get one on the line for you straight away".....If you ring up and ask to speak to a supervisor straight away, they the CSA usually mumbles something about not them not being available or that the CSA is there to assist customers and you dont need to speak to a supervisor.......

[lostandconfused]

Originally Posted by madrob

I think in most cases 'customer services' are solely employed to fob people off. However, I did get somewhere yesterday when the first thing I said to the Customer Services Rep was 'I wish to make a formal complaint in writing, can ou give the address please?". Which was met with - "have you spoken to a manager about your problems - I can get one on the line for you straight away".....If you ring up and ask to speak to a supervisor straight away, they the CSA usually mumbles something about not them not being available or that the CSA is there to assist customers and you dont need to speak to a supervisor.......

you absolutly correct there. The CSA is there to assist customers and most times you dont need to speak to a supervisor, working in customer services do you know how many calls i get a day where the first thing the caller says is i want to speak to a supervisor? its lots, if i were to say, yes certainly sir ill put you through to one now before finding out what the problem is there would need to be more supervisors than CSA's on the phones.

Some people think that if they talk to a supervisor/manager they are likely to get a better result. often thats not the case, most supervisors arn't taking calls all day, so dont have as good systems knowledge as most CSA's they have a higher credit limit but thats about it.

Also the adress for a written complaint is on the back of the bill, i would suggest sending it by recorded delivery. Whats the difference between a formal complaint and a complaint?

Finally, previously it did used to be dificult to speak to a supervisor and usually meant having to have a call back, however the process has changed in the past few months, and it CS at least there is always a supervisor available if you need to speak to one, however a CSA will not transfer you before finding out what the problem is and at least trying to help.

[KaySquirrel]

Lots of excellent points in your post, lostandconfused! I've only snipped for length..

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

*snippy* and it CS at least there is always a supervisor available if you need to speak to one, however a CSA will not transfer you before finding out what the problem is and at least trying to help.

Assuming that NTL:TW has policies similar to other call centres when it comes to this, I just thought I'd underline that in most cases, the CSA is not allowed and will get in trouble for just transferring you/escalating the issue to a supervisor before finding out what the problem is and at least trying to help.

When I was working helpdesk (not for NTL:TW) I would have LOVED to be able to act upon every single request for a supervisor to take the call immediately. Seriously: 1) try to troubleshoot with Mr. Angry Sometimes Profane Unhappy Customer or 2) transfer him so he can yell at your boss instead, and go make yourself a nice cup of tea! LOL

The worst kind of calls are the ones where you know the client doesn't want to talk to YOU, but your job duties oblige you to try to help them before escalating (which often sets you up for abuse). A lot of customers expected us to act like our jobs would be in jeopardy if they mentioned to the boss that we didn't fetch them a manager right away, when the truth of the matter is that we're more liable to run into problems if we DON'T follow the procedures set out by management -- however painful those extra steps might be for customers and CSAs to go through before getting that manager on the line.

I do have to wonder why the ball was dropped with regard to cherylsmith1982's problem, though:

Originally Posted by cherylsmith1982

So, after a call to NTL, they have refused to drop the late payment charge because they say that our address is correct on their system. They dont care that we have the letter to hand which IS incorrectly addressed. And also, they said that the bill DOES NOT include a service charge - but yet again, it clearly states on this letter SERVICE CHARGES - 15.00.

The way I was trained:

1) Check cherylsmith1982's address on our system, and see that it IS correct. (Preemptive strike against the bigger problem of her info being wrong in our files!)

2) Confirm that the bill that cherylsmith1982 is holding in her hand right at this moment is NOT addressed correctly.

3) Make a note that if the bill was generated automatically by our system, the customer's address has got to be wrong in there somewhere, even if it's not in a part of the file that I have access to.

4) Re: Late Payment Charge -- If this bill was sent to the wrong address, assume that the one the client never got (and therefore, couldn't pay) went to the wrong address as well. Contact supervisor for permission to waive the Late Payment Charge given these circumstances.

5) Even if I don't see a Service Charge on the client's last bill on the system, assume that the client can read and does, actually, see the words Service Charge in front of her on the bill.

6a) Escalate the issue to find out if the £15 'Service Charge' the client sees really means that a service charge has been applied to the account, and if is in ANY WAY related to a delay paying the bill because of the address mixup, get permission from management to waive this charge as well, given the circumstances.

6b) If 'Service Charge' could mean 'It's Not A Service Charge Per Se, But We Like To Use Generic Terms For Things In This Company Just To Mix Things Up A Bit!', find out what the charge is for, in this specific case, and.. if it's in any way related to the address mixup, get permission from management to waive the charge, given the circumstances.

7) Log the details of the call and all steps taken so that if the customer does have to call back, she doesn't need to explain everything all over again.

8) If call logging software allows it, why not follow-up on this ticket in a week or so to make sure that any charges to be refunded were applied, and to see if we've found out yet where that wrong address was hiding in the file. (If it happened to one client, it WILL happen to others, and we should find out where the problem is before it spreads.)

It doesn't seem like rocket surgery (lol!) to me. Hopefully the OP's issue will be resolved soon!

[nffc]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

you absolutly correct there. The CSA is there to assist customers and most times you dont need to speak to a supervisor, working in customer services do you know how many calls i get a day where the first thing the caller says is i want to speak to a supervisor? its lots, if i were to say, yes certainly sir ill put you through to one now before finding out what the problem is there would need to be more supervisors than CSA's on the phones.

Some people think that if they talk to a supervisor/manager they are likely to get a better result. often thats not the case, most supervisors arn't taking calls all day, so dont have as good systems knowledge as most CSA's they have a higher credit limit but thats about it.

Also the adress for a written complaint is on the back of the bill, i would suggest sending it by recorded delivery. Whats the difference between a formal complaint and a complaint?

Finally, previously it did used to be dificult to speak to a supervisor and usually meant having to have a call back, however the process has changed in the past few months, and it CS at least there is always a supervisor available if you need to speak to one, however a CSA will not transfer you before finding out what the problem is and at least trying to help.

You're entirely right there. We were always told to (and worked on the basis that) we were taking the calls, and we need to decide whether passing the call over to someone else was going to make a difference.

In other words, get details of the problem, if you can sort it yourself, then do it, if you can't, then pass it over. Sometimes it can take about 4-5 minutes to find a manager, and then fill them in on the details, then the caller has to start again from scratch - in which cases, it's quicker to deal with it yourself if you can.

Originally Posted by madrob

I think in most cases 'customer services' are solely employed to fob people off. However, I did get somewhere yesterday when the first thing I said to the Customer Services Rep was 'I wish to make a formal complaint in writing, can ou give the address please?". Which was met with - "have you spoken to a manager about your problems - I can get one on the line for you straight away".....If you ring up and ask to speak to a supervisor straight away, they the CSA usually mumbles something about not them not being available or that the CSA is there to assist customers and you dont need to speak to a supervisor.......

Yeah, that's probably because the CSA didn't think it was appropriate for him/her to deal with it... and decided that it would be better for you to speak to someone higher up.

If you ask for a manager straight away that is likely to mean you're going to get fobbed off or something, because it's almost like saying to the person "Oh by the way, I have zero confidence in your ability to do your job" without actually knowing.

[cherylsmith1982]

Before writing a letter, I'm going to try calling them again. Maybe I just got a useless CSA?
If I write to them and dont get a response, I dont want them to be adding more charges on the bill in the meantime.

I'll keep you updated - if I manage to get through to someone.

thanks again for your replies.

I am new to this forum and I'm finding it, sorry to say, but very reassuring to know that its not just be that seems to have problem after problem with ntl

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

hmmm, just noticed a complaints number on the back and I'm now wondering if its worth calling that one instead.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------


Very glad now that I rang them back. I spoke to a very nice man (a very very nice man), who was very helpful.

A copy of the bill in question has been ordered for me and should be in the post as of today. The late payment charged has been dropped because of the circumstances (wrong address). The address on the system WAS correct but he said that they have recently had a new system installed so the error could very well be down to that. The bill that I have actually received anyway is completely different to what he could see on his system so even that is a complete cock up! I am being told that there will be no service charge on the bill that is being sent out (as that is an error anyway) and no late payment fee's.

This is the exact reason why I cancelled my direct debit with ntl!

10 out of 10 for that customer advisor!

[KaySquirrel]

Woo and Yay for getting a resolution on this!

Originally Posted by cherylsmith1982

Before writing a letter, I'm going to try calling them again. Maybe I just got a useless CSA?
If I write to them and dont get a response, I dont want them to be adding more charges on the bill in the meantime.

I'll keep you updated - if I manage to get through to someone.

thanks again for your replies.

I am new to this forum and I'm finding it, sorry to say, but very reassuring to know that its not just be that seems to have problem after problem with ntl

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

hmmm, just noticed a complaints number on the back and I'm now wondering if its worth calling that one instead.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------


Very glad now that I rang them back. I spoke to a very nice man (a very very nice man), who was very helpful.

A copy of the bill in question has been ordered for me and should be in the post as of today. The late payment charged has been dropped because of the circumstances (wrong address). The address on the system WAS correct but he said that they have recently had a new system installed so the error could very well be down to that. The bill that I have actually received anyway is completely different to what he could see on his system so even that is a complete cock up! I am being told that there will be no service charge on the bill that is being sent out (as that is an error anyway) and no late payment fee's.

This is the exact reason why I cancelled my direct debit with ntl!

10 out of 10 for that customer advisor!

Thing is, somebody, a human being, has ballsed up somewhere, there is no such a thing as computer error, somebody has to input the information, somebody explain how this persons address could have been mistaken apart from somebody, not a computer, actually inputting the wrong address.
Furthermore I see this as a confidentiality matter as far as data protection is concerned, I would report them.
Hope everythings ok now

---------- Post added at 11:48 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Originally Posted by nffc

You're entirely right there. We were always told to (and worked on the basis that) we were taking the calls, and we need to decide whether passing the call over to someone else was going to make a difference.

In other words, get details of the problem, if you can sort it yourself, then do it, if you can't, then pass it over. Sometimes it can take about 4-5 minutes to find a manager, and then fill them in on the details, then the caller has to start again from scratch - in which cases, it's quicker to deal with it yourself if you can.




Yeah, that's probably because the CSA didn't think it was appropriate for him/her to deal with it... and decided that it would be better for you to speak to someone higher up.

If you ask for a manager straight away that is likely to mean you're going to get fobbed off or something, because it's almost like saying to the person "Oh by the way, I have zero confidence in your ability to do your job" without actually knowing.

If on the other hand " I " and not the csa decide I am getting nowhere I have a right to speak to a manager, some csa's are not the brightest pennies in the bank, and at the end of the day I pay towards the wage bill.

[DES_1001]

very well said arcamalpha2004

[lostandconfused]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

If on the other hand " I " and not the csa decide I am getting nowhere I have a right to speak to a manager, some csa's are not the brightest pennies in the bank, and at the end of the day I pay towards the wage bill.

you do have the right to speak to a sueprvisor, the point i was trying to make was that you have to let the CSA try and deal with the issue first before asking / insisting on speaking to a supervisor as they wont be able to put you through.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

you do have the right to speak to a sueprvisor, the point i was trying to make was that you have to let the CSA try and deal with the issue first before asking / insisting on speaking to a supervisor as they wont be able to put you through.

Yeah... if everyone did that, in most call centres there would be more supervisors than normal call agents.

[KaySquirrel]

Originally Posted by nffc

Yeah... if everyone did that, in most call centres there would be more supervisors than normal call agents.

At a few call centres I've worked at, when a client was flat-out refusing to give any details and just demanding a supervisor, quite often they'd just be transferred to another agent who would pretend to be a manager to get details of the issue, and then (if necessary), would escalate to "the 3rd level manager", as we were not permitted to escalate issues without trying to assist/getting more information about the problem. I remember those methods when have to call customer service/tech support departments. I'd rather take a few moments to explain something than speak to a pretend manager!

[Shaun]

quite often they'd just be transferred to another agent who would pretend to be a manager

And it's those sort of tactics that really **** customers off - your compeny must have done something really bad to them for them to demand a manager in the first instance and then to lie to them.

I've had that happen to me before and I've gone ape when I've found out and I've even writen to the MD of the company telling them how unacceptable it is (I'm looking at you Canon - well your contractors).

Indeed, when you think that the customer will probably never use your company again if that's the way you deal with them (Canon were pretty good when they found out their contractors were doing this and threw about £350 worth of goods at me to say sorry - so I would buy from them again ).