Zimbabwe's struggle for freedom

Can we spare a thought today for the courageous people of Zimbabwe in their current stayaway from work as a protest against the latest brutal clearing of townships. Many thousands are being thrown onto the steets with no shelter, already deprived of food and face police brutality. In addition to which aid agencies have been forbidden by mugabe's regime to assist these people.

The mugabe regime is engaged in seeking revenge against those who supported the opposition in the recent farcical parliamentary elections. The counrty is close to ground zero. The average Zimbabwean has had enough of mugabe's brutal dictatorship and desires freedom.

Let's remember that often here in the UK we take our freedoms, our democracy for granted, remember there are many in Zimbabwe who desire the same rights as we enjoy.

The mugabe/zanu pf regime is evil and the sooner it goes the better.

[Ramrod]

I seem to recall the country once being run properly, now when was that? ............and South Africa may well be next........corruption, positive discrimination, inept government etc.......

[BBKing]

When was Zimbabwe ever run properly?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by BBKing

When was Zimbabwe ever run properly?

link
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Betrayal of a nation

[BBKing]

You're suggesting that *Ian Smith* ran Rhodesia properly, which implies that you believe white minority, patriarchal rule is best for the poor Africans, who can't be trusted with political power?

Clinging on grimly to a 19th century view of the world until the whole thing fell over, and what emerged from the mess was the worst possible outcome, as usually happens when you try and sail against the wind politically. Very well run indeed.

White minority rule was lunacy just as Mugabe's regime is lunacy. I fail to see what replacing one by the other would achieve.

That page is blatant propaganda, incidentally.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by BBKing

You're suggesting that *Ian Smith* ran Rhodesia properly, which implies that you believe white minority, patriarchal rule is best for the poor Africans, who can't be trusted with political power?

Based on black Africans past and continuing track record, yes.
From todays Times: Why the West's billions may end up in the wrong hands/ Human rights and debt/ Adviser to top ANC man is jailed for 15 years.......thats just todays papers...

Clinging on grimly to a 19th century view of the world until the whole thing fell over

White minority rule was lunacy just as Mugabe's regime is lunacy.

Everyone had enough to eat when there was a white minority rule.

That page is blatant propaganda, incidentally.

afaik.......It presents the facts.

I am not arguing for a return to white rule, nor am I saying that minority whites should ever be in charge. I am just saying (in response to your question) that the last time the people of Zimbabwe had stability, jobs and food was in Ian Smiths time........which happened to be a period of white, minority rule.
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Breaking news:

Zimbabwe strike has limited success
A two-day general strike called to protest a government crackdown on the urban poor began slowly with a heavy police presence on the streets of Harare. A broad alliance of civic society groups, churches, opposition parties, unions and a women's group called for the general strike to protest against what the government calls a campaign to improve the cities, but which the UN says has left at least 200,000 urban poor homeless and more than 30,000 under arrest. Police have warned for days that they will "deal ruthlessly" with anyone participating in the strike.

If that was a white govt doing those things there would be a worldwide outcry............because it's a black govt it appears that it's ok....the silence over what is going on there is deafening.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by BBKing

You're suggesting that *Ian Smith* ran Rhodesia properly, which implies that you believe white minority, patriarchal rule is best for the poor Africans, who can't be trusted with political power?

I didn't see that, I believe he was implying that "Ian Smith" ran Rhodesia properly. ** You** like so many people do, added the racial overtone.

Clinging on grimly to a 19th century view of the world until the whole thing fell over, and what emerged from the mess was the worst possible outcome, as usually happens when you try and sail against the wind politically. Very well run indeed.

White minority rule was lunacy just as Mugabe's regime is lunacy. I fail to see what replacing one by the other would achieve.

That page is blatant propaganda, incidentally.

This is what happens when the lunatics run the asylum

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Based on black Africans past and continuing track record, yes.
From todays Times: Why the West's billions may end up in the wrong hands/ Human rights and debt/ Adviser to top ANC man is jailed for 15 years.......thats just todays papers...

Everyone had enough to eat when there was a white minority rule.

afaik.......It presents the facts.

I am not arguing for a return to white rule, nor am I saying that minority whites should ever be in charge. I am just saying (in response to your question) that the last time the people of Zimbabwe had stability, jobs and food was in Ian Smiths time........which happened to be a period of white, minority rule.
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Breaking news: If that was a white govt doing those things there would be a worldwide outcry............because it's a black govt it appears that it's ok....the silence over what is going on there is deafening.

I dont think any of it is about being white or black, unfortunately some countries see life as being cheap. These countries generally happen to be countries with black people and black leaders.

I have never understood why so many people cheer Mandela in South Africa..... Are they ignoring the fact that he was sponsoring the family of his political supporters before he went to prison, these people were being sponsored to study overseas for chemical, nuclear and weapon technology.

I dont know if there are any links to back it up, but a Mandela supporter told me how her father was part of his party and her older brothers and sisters education were being funded by his party for these reasons.

When started I this topic I had hoped that people could put aside mentioning the former Rhodesian Front government and pre 1980 events. Events have moved on since 1980 and mugabe's regime has gradually deteriorated into one of Africa's worst dictatorships.

mugabe has cynically manipulated elections in Zimbabwe to ensure his own party maintains its rule. He has squashed attempts to create a free press, the Zimbabwe press and braodcasting stations are mouthpieces for mugabe's propaganda: he has introduced various repressive laws in addition to existing legislation from Rhodesian times to prop up his dictatorship.

Following electoral advances by the opposition he set out to ensure never to allow free and fair elections in Zimbabwe ever again, not that they were really free or fair before, mugabe then ochestrated invasions of commercial farms on the pretext that these would be distributed to landless peasants whereas in realality the best farms have been handed over to high ranking zanu pf leaders, higher civil servants, police, army & air force personnel. These farms have been mismanaged and do not add to Zimbabwe's needs to food. Zimbabwe used to be known as the breadbasket of Africa, no more is this the case. Unemployment has reached record proportions, millions are denied a real stake in Zimbabwean society whilst the super rich and upper middle classes have been bought off by the regime. Every time there is a crisis he increases substantially police and army pay. Now mugabe has engaged in a so called cleansing of townships. Bulldozers crush homes many are quite legal structures. Many people engage in the informal economy as they are denied opportunites in the formal economy.

The disgusting angle to all this is how so called enlightened African leaders including; museveni of Uganda, mkapa of Tanzania and mbeki of South Africa find the time to make excuses for mugabe's fascist rule, they cover his actions by relying on colonial memories, one can only assume they only wish to imitate mugabe's example. Meanwhile our minister for Africa, David Triesman just like six of his predecessors says nothing, only the former minister for Africa, Peter Hain to his credit was prepared to make a stand on the issue.

If today has shown the stayaway to be rather less than expected we need to remember mugabe's riot police and military are on the streets intimidating and bullying the public. I understand support for the stayaway has been over 50% in Harare, Mutare and Bulawayo not bad considering the state machine against them, it takes a special kind of courage to stand against mugabe's regime. tomorrow may well see greater support.

ZWNEWS

SOKWANELE

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

When started I this topic I had hoped that people could put aside mentioning the former Rhodesian Front government and pre 1980 events. Events have moved on since 1980 and mugabe's regime has gradually deteriorated into one of Africa's worst dictatorships.

mugabe has cynically manipulated elections in Zimbabwe to ensure his own party maintains its rule. He has squashed attempts to create a free press, the Zimbabwe press and braodcasting stations are mouthpieces for mugabe's propaganda: he has introduced various repressive laws in addition to existing legislation from Rhodesian times to prop up his dictatorship.

.............and the world does nothing, If there isn't racism involved (or if it's black on white racism) then it's ok

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

.............and the world does nothing, If there isn't racism involved (or if it's black on white racism) then it's ok

Not necessarily. The world is not exactly up in arms about a place like Myanmar either is it?

Not sure if all the brick bats re race help. The fact that previously there was minority, undemocratic rule in both nations (and not minority rule like we have here ) does not suggest well run countries. At the same time no-one I think would suggest that the anti-democratic, violent and corrupt Zanu PF regime is doing a good job. South Africa has its problems - there's a lot of cronyism for example - but the ANC, or whoever was elected, was always going to have a major issue reconciling the aspirations and expectations of the black majority whose life opportunites had long been suppressed under apartheid. The country will struggle but, over time, will, I think, emerge a fairer nation with a strong economy. But it will take time.

Getting back to the whole point of this thread.... ordinary Zimbabweans are taking a stand against a brutal regime which has crushed opposition voices and is demolishing townships to quell dissent. I believe gogogo asked us spare a thought for them on a day when congestion charging has been the biggest thing we've apparently had to worry about.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Getting back to the whole point of this thread.... ordinary Zimbabweans are taking a stand against a brutal regime which has crushed opposition voices and is demolishing townships to quell dissent. I believe gogogo asked us spare a thought for them on a day when congestion charging has been the biggest thing we've apparently had to worry about.

.........and a significant proportion of this population can't even be bothered to vote when there are millions in other countries who would love to be able to (or be able to in fair elections)
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Originally Posted by danielf

Not necessarily. The world is not exactly up in arms about a place like Myanmar either is it?

Whats going on over there?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Whats going on over there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Myanmar

When I visited there in '91 there were large billboards in the street with slogans like 'crush all destructive elements', 'it is illegal to contract AIDS' etc. Very Orwellian. The leader of the opposition, Nobel peace prize winner Aung San Su Kyi has spent much of the past 15-20 years under house arrest after winning the nullified 1990 elections decisively

The government is also at constant war with ethnic groups who want independence. A war which is funded (allegedly) with the proceedings of the poppy trade.

But anyway, this thread is about Zimbabwe