Pay Your Tax Like The Rest of Us!

No not Gypsies, Travellers, benefit fraudsters, dole-ies, the youth of today, drug users etc but.......

"The world's richest individuals have placed $11.5 trillion of assets in offshore havens, mainly as a tax avoidance measure. The shock new figure - 10 times Britain's GDP - is contained in the most authoritative study of the wealth held in offshore accounts ever conducted.
The study, by Tax Justice Network, a group of accountants and economists concerned at the escalating wealth held in offshore locations, shows that the world's high-net-worth individuals earn $860 billion each year from their assets.

But there is growing alarm among regulators and campaigners because exchequers worldwide are missing out on at least $255bn of tax each year. Governments appear unable, or unwilling, to prevent the rich employing aggressive strategies to minimise their tax liabilities......

.....This has resulted in the wealthy becoming less inclined to associate with normal society and feeling no obligation to pay taxes.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/busin...446120,00.html

[Florence]

Make them pay more tax if they try hiding it offshore that will stop them

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by Kits

Make them pay more tax if they try hiding it offshore that will stop them

But that's the point Kits, as andyl points out in his quote, Governments appear unwilling or unable to make them do so! I'm sute the Taxman could get his hands on the money if he wanted to - but that would make these rich influential people stop making donations to certain political parties' coffers! So nothing will be done, as usual!

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Chimaera

But that's the point Kits, as andyl points out in his quote, Governments appear unwilling or unable to make them do so! I'm sute the Taxman could get his hands on the money if he wanted to - but that would make these rich influential people stop making donations to certain political parties' coffers! So nothing will be done, as usual!

Two points here:

1. A good deal of politicians have offshore assests.

2. If you stop people having offshore assets then lots of UK bases business leaders will move themselves offshore instead, meaning a bigger loss to the UK revenue.

We could send a gunboat.

On the other hand stopping farming subsidies for the wealthy landowners in the UK could be a start and I don't mean the poorer farmers who need subsidies.

[punky]

At least what they are doing is entirely legal, unlike the groups mentioened at the beginning of their post.

It is a vicious circle. Everyone tries to get out of paying tax because we pay such a ridiculously high amount of it, so as people find ways out of it, the governments just raise it.

There are a few options to help sort it, like removing income tax in favour of a super-high sales tax. Not sure they will do any good. In a way you can't really blame them. They earn money and it is important to them as well as us. Does anyone want to pay out 1p more than that have to? Can people afford to give away money based on a principle?

Originally Posted by Gogogo

We could send a gunboat.

On the other hand stopping farming subsidies for the wealthy landowners in the UK could be a start and I don't mean the poorer farmers who need subsidies.

Yeah, I reckon the Duke of Westminster could scrape by without!!
__________________

Originally Posted by punky

At least what they are doing is entirely legal, unlike the groups mentioened at the beginning of their post.

It is a vicious circle. Everyone tries to get out of paying tax because we pay such a ridiculously high amount of it, so as people find ways out of it, the governments just raise it.

There are a few options to help sort it, like removing income tax in favour of a super-high sales tax. Not sure they will do any good. In a way you can't really blame them. They earn money and it is important to them as well as us. Does anyone want to pay out 1p more than that have to? Can people afford to give away money based on a principle?

Legal but not moral (and sometimes very borderline legal - and if they get caught a cosy settlement with the Revenue rather than up before the local JPs)

I don't think we do pay a ridiculously high amount of tax; many people pay a disproportionate amount of tax because the wealthy (the greedy) dodge whilst us mortals can't.

Everyone tries to get out of paying tax? Read the quote from the Bishop in that article. The culture of tax avoidance is part of the problem (cf to moral panics about benefit fraud). Incidentally I'm self employed and don't try to avoid tax, so don't include me in the everyone I appreciate public services and as a one man drain on the NHS am happy to pay my whack.

A high sales tax instead of Income Tax? Nooooooooo! Indirect taxation always hits the poorest hardest. Income Tax is, well, related to income which makes it fairer (except when income disappears off to the Caymans).

Bit off topic I know, but wasnt Income Tax only instituted to help the Crown pay for the war against Napeoleon?

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

Everyone tries to get out of paying tax?

Yeah, fair point, my comment was a bit blase. Its just that, you seem to be rather fortunate in your wealth, but others like me, and my friends around me, don't seem to be. Not everyone tries to cheat the tax system, but people from every part of life. We travel to France to buy beer and fags because VAT is so expensive. I doubt there is a freelancer out there who declares everything he earns. The annoying thing is, the people at the bottom, and the middle, feel the pinch morew than the top, where money to them is just a number. They are standing on their principals.

A high sales tax instead of Income Tax? Nooooooooo! Indirect taxation always hits the poorest hardest. Income Tax is, well, related to income which makes it fairer (except when income disappears off to the Caymans).

Well, it was just something that popped into my head, so I don't know about the feasibility of it, but certainly at first glance it seems to do the trick. What I thought about was, for personal taxes, the poorest buy less, and they buy cheaper, so they'd pay less VAT than a richer person who buys more, and buys more expensive. Income tax and its supplements seems to be easy to cheat whereas VAT seems to be much harder as it is taken at the checkout. The only way to avoid this is to buy outside the country, so i'm not sure how feasible it is, it was just a thought.

The trouble you can't really stop people banking in other countries. Its all legal, so how can you convince people to just throw more of their money away? I think the article is more of a class-bashing exercise than anything else. It would be nice if they paid the tax because we'd all benefit, but you can't really blame them for trying to keep their own money. I can't anyway. I will never be rich, let alone super-rich, I doubt I will ever be comfortable. I will always have to work and struggle to get by, but that doesn't mean I have to resent those more fortunate than me? I won't.

[budwieser]

" I will never be rich, let alone super-rich, I doubt I will ever be comfortable. I will always have to work and struggle to get by, but that doesn't mean I have to resent those more fortunate than me? I won't."
I think that most of us are in the same boat mate!
My wife has two jobs and if she`s lucky, she gets one day off every week and then she looks after our Grandaughter so our Daughter can go to work.
I work six days a week and when i look at my payslip every month and see that i`ve worked over a week for nothing, i could cry!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by andyl

Yeah, I reckon the Duke of Westminster could scrape by without!!
__________________



Legal but not moral (and sometimes very borderline legal - and if they get caught a cosy settlement with the Revenue rather than up before the local JPs)

I don't think we do pay a ridiculously high amount of tax; many people pay a disproportionate amount of tax because the wealthy (the greedy) dodge whilst us mortals can't.

Everyone tries to get out of paying tax? Read the quote from the Bishop in that article. The culture of tax avoidance is part of the problem (cf to moral panics about benefit fraud). Incidentally I'm self employed and don't try to avoid tax, so don't include me in the everyone I appreciate public services and as a one man drain on the NHS am happy to pay my whack.

A high sales tax instead of Income Tax? Nooooooooo! Indirect taxation always hits the poorest hardest. Income Tax is, well, related to income which makes it fairer (except when income disappears off to the Caymans).

We dont pay a rediculously high amount of tax....Yeah right.

The only people who dont pay high tax in this country are the ones who have their taxes returned, companies are paying low wages knowing the government will make the employees wages up to a better level with "Stealth Tax refunds" ie: Tax Credits/family credit.

Tax credits should never be allowed, companies should pay wages at a suitable level and families should act resposibly. ie: not have loads of kids if they cant financially afford them. We can never expect to see then end to family credit whilst many civil servants are receiving help if this area, even employees in benefit offices are getting tax/family credit.

A few years ago I was paying 1300 a month in tax and NI, I know contractors who were paying around two grand a month. The whole tax system in this country penalises the person who makes something of himself and gets a decent job, and puts it back in the pocket of the ones who end up in lower paid jobs. The whole employment situatiuon in this country with regards to wages and tax is a farce, jobs are being advertised at a very low rate where single people couldn't afford to take them. The companies know that people with families can affoprd to take them as the government will make the wages up.

Yes, stop offshore tax havens for companies, the companies will dissapear along with many low paid jobs. Do we want it to go back to the Labour government of the 70's where some managing directors were paying 98 pence in the pound tax?

Originally Posted by punky

Yeah, fair point, my comment was a bit blase. Its just that, you seem to be rather fortunate in your wealth, but others like me, and my friends around me, don't seem to be. Not everyone tries to cheat the tax system, but people from every part of life. We travel to France to buy beer and fags because VAT is so expensive. I doubt there is a freelancer out there who declares everything he earns. The annoying thing is, the people at the bottom, and the middle, feel the pinch morew than the top, where money to them is just a number. They are standing on their principals.

Agreed. What's going on?

Well, it was just something that popped into my head, so I don't know about the feasibility of it, but certainly at first glance it seems to do the trick. What I thought about was, for personal taxes, the poorest buy less, and they buy cheaper, so they'd pay less VAT than a richer person who buys more, and buys more expensive. Income tax and its supplements seems to be easy to cheat whereas VAT seems to be much harder as it is taken at the checkout. The only way to avoid this is to buy outside the country, so i'm not sure how feasible it is, it was just a thought.

The problem with indirect taxation is that the poorer tend to pay a higher proportion of their income than the rich. However poor we are, we all have to but food, electrictity, petrol, Booze (well, technically not an essential) etc.

The trouble you can't really stop people banking in other countries. Its all legal, so how can you convince people to just throw more of their money away? I think the article is more of a class-bashing exercise than anything else. It would be nice if they paid the tax because we'd all benefit, but you can't really blame them for trying to keep their own money. I can't anyway. I will never be rich, let alone super-rich, I doubt I will ever be comfortable. I will always have to work and struggle to get by, but that doesn't mean I have to resent those more fortunate than me? I won't.

The best way is to tax people and companies before the money can leave the country. And you can clampdown on offshore tax breaks. The point in that artricle about Government intervention, or lack of it, is pertinent now. I also don't resent others more fortunate than me (strange but true - some of my best friends are pot-loaded ), just want them to pay tax like I and you do.
__________________

Originally Posted by Escapee

We dont pay a rediculously high amount of tax....Yeah right.

The only people who dont pay high tax in this country are the ones who have their taxes returned, companies are paying low wages knowing the government will make the employees wages up to a better level with "Stealth Tax refunds" ie: Tax Credits/family credit.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. As a nation we don't pay a ridiculous amount. It's just that those who are higher up the food chain get a better deal

Tax credits should never be allowed, companies should pay wages at a suitable level

Agreed.

and families should act resposibly. ie: not have loads of kids if they cant financially afford them.

I'll have to think about that one

We can never expect to see then end to family credit whilst many civil servants are receiving help if this area, even employees in benefit offices are getting tax/family credit.

Well as you say, people should be paid a post-tax living wage.

A few years ago...(snip)

It's Easter, peace to all, so let's not go there

[Ramrod]

If an employed person earns a good wage, his company has to pay a lot of NI.
The more he earns, the more NI the company pays.....and it can really mount up!

Originally Posted by Ramrod

If an employed person earns a good wage, his company has to pay a lot of NI.
The more he earns, the more NI the company pays.....and it can really mount up!

As much as corporate tax avoidance?

Mind you, the increase in NI was another cop out from doing anything about Income Tax which might grab uncomplimentary headlines.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

As much as corporate tax avoidance?

No idea m8. All I know is that it made it completely unprofitable for us to employ a chiropractor ................