P2P Filesharing Legalities

Music industry 'nails UK pirates'

Music downloaded from the internet is being targeted once again, what I canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t workout is why?
Anyone can listen to or record music via a radioââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢à¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã‚¦..
Is this some sort of internet myth? You download music from the internet so you have to pay for it?
P2P sharing is just the same as recording from a licensed broadcaster of music surely?
While I do not condone stealing music or copyright material from anyone, I would like to ask the question why one recording medium is ok while downloading isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t?

Link

[Mal]

Originally Posted by yesman

Anyone can listen to or record music via a radioââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢à¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã‚¦..

One of the drawbacks to recording from the radio is that you have to be sitting there, with your finger on the pause button, waiting for the dj to shut up and to press pause before the dj starts again.
Plus, you need to know when the song you want is playing...

[Halcyon]

And most of the time the radio will add their station ident on top of the tune just when you thought you were getting a nice recording of it.
Plus, most stations are only allowed to play radio edits of songs so if you want the full 7 minute version, your screwed.

The Problem with mp3 is that it normally gets leaked onto the net before the product is out in the shops, so all the money going into advertising and promoting the tracks to buy in the shops goes to waste as people downloaded it about 2 months before it came out.

Still, I enjoy buying my CDs and vinyl in shops. Atleast you know you are getting the best possible version and supporting the industry.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Halcyon

And most of the time the radio will add their station ident on top of the tune just when you thought you were getting a nice recording of it.
Plus, most stations are only allowed to play radio edits of songs so if you want the full 7 minute version, your screwed.

The Problem with mp3 is that it normally gets leaked onto the net before the product is out in the shops, so all the money going into advertising and promoting the tracks to buy in the shops goes to waste as people downloaded it about 2 months before it came out.

Still, I enjoy buying my CDs and vinyl in shops. Atleast you know you are getting the best possible version and supporting the industry.

I suppose that you're too young to record songs on cassette tape from Radio 1 top 40 chart show That's what I meant in my previous post.

[At a loss]

Originally Posted by Mal

I suppose that you're too young to record songs on cassette tape from Radio 1 top 40 chart show That's what I meant in my previous post.

It was fun though

[markmarkymark]

I guess the point is that with recording radio etc you were / are more likely to say 'yep I like that so I will go and buy that ....'....

With p2p you have the ability to firstly have an almost perfect copy of the recording - and then allow someone else to have a copy as well with no reduction in quality when you pass it on .... you then burn it to CD .... oh and then you go to a cover site and print a near perfect copy of the CD covers ......

Do you then go and buy it ... many do not ....... I think thats the problem ......

mark

[me283]

I always understood it was legal to record music if it wa for "personal use". eg if you have a CD and want to record it to use in the car etc. Similarly, if someone loans you a CD, you should be able to record it for personal use, or have I got that wrong? And by my simple logic, that's what (most) users of P2P sites do... record for personal use.

[markmarkymark]

i do not think download 'for personal use' is the issue - I think its upload the the masses which is the problem...

[Neil]

Originally Posted by markmarkymark

i do not think download 'for personal use' is the issue - I think its upload the the masses which is the problem...

But it's those same "masses" that are downloading it for personal use!

[Gareth]

As I understand it, the 'personal use' does not apply to musical recordings. There was a legal case that determined it was legal to record tv shows for personal use, which came about shortly after the introduction of VCRs, but I'm not aware of any such case existing for music.

However, IANAL, so don't quote me on that

[GeoffW]

IIRC, recording music to tape from the radio was permitted for personal use because the broadcaster had paid a royalty to play it, and the blank tapes had a levy on the assumption that is what they could be used for.

Neither charges are applicable to P2P.

My problem with paying for downloads is the restrictions that are put in place to the tracks use. For example some legally downloaded tracks only play on 5 machines, you cannot change the format or, worst of all the tracks self destruct if you cease a subscription to the service. If tracks were cheaper (than shops) and with fewer restrictions, more people would do it.

[Gareth]

Ahhh, I stand corrected.

I still loathe Bruno Brookes for having ruined countless of my recordings by babbling through songs

[markmarkymark]

Originally Posted by Neil

But it's those same "masses" that are downloading it for personal use!

Yep neil I was not clear - without the uploads there are no downloads - thats what I was getting at...

[ian@huth]

In the UK copying music is only legal if it is done with the copyright holders permission unless the music is out of the copyright time. Copyright exists in the musical score, lyrics and the sound recording itself.

Copyright of the sound recording is important because you can get things like a recording of an orchestra playing the works of a long dead composer whose works are now out of copyright having a new copyright on their recording of that work.

Info on music copyright can be found at:
http://www.intellectual-property.gov...rivate_use.htm
http://copyrightservice.co.uk/protec...usic_copyright

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by yesman

Music downloaded from the internet is being targeted once again, what I canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t workout is why?

At the risk of sounding facetious, why not? It's not yours to control it's the music industry's and musicians. If they choose to persue someone who's nicking their stuff that's their right in law. There's a simple way of not being targeted as a music pirate, and that's to not share or download music files from unauthorised sites or people.

Originally Posted by yesman

Anyone can listen to or record music via a radioââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚¦Ã¢à¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã‚¦..

If you buy a record or CD, you pay an amount to the various people who have their claim over it. So the record company gets a bit, the artists get a bit, the songwriter gets a bit and the publisher of the lyrics and composition get a bit. Buying a CD gives you no rights, implied or otherwise, of ownership of anything other than the material goods...i.e. you own the plastic but not the intelectual property of the items stored on the plastic.

When a song is played on the radio, the broadcaster pays two lots of royalties for the right to do so. This is collected by the Performing Right Society (PRS) (on behalf of the publishers and in turn the composers) and Phonographic Performance Ltd (PPL) (collecting for the labels and in turn the artists). These are broadcast fees, and give the listener no rights to record, remaster, lend, hire or sells such a recording.

Originally Posted by yesman

Is this some sort of internet myth? You download music from the internet so you have to pay for it?

It is not as black and white as that. If you are intending to perform an act that will impeach on someone elses copyright, then it is law that you must obtain their permission to do so. So it's not illegal to download something off the internet, you just need to ask the record company first!

The real issue here is not one of downloading, it's uploading - although naturally (and literally) one is connected to the other - it's supply and demand.

Of the two acts, uploading has to be seen as more serious, just like the person selling dodgy CDs at a car boot sale is comitting a greater offence than the guy who buys them.

Originally Posted by me283

I always understood it was legal to record music if it wa for "personal use". eg if you have a CD and want to record it to use in the car etc.

There is no provision under British law to allow for copies of any copyrighted material (for back-up or otherwise) to be made without the express consent of the copyright owner. However under the new EU Copyright Directive there is call for member states to allow for 'reasonable' exceptions to be made.

Originally Posted by me283

Similarly, if someone loans you a CD, you should be able to record it for personal use, or have I got that wrong?

Yes! You have that absolutely wrong! Not only are you not technically permitted to lend a CD to anyone, you are certainly not allowed to make a copy of it then hand the original back!

Originally Posted by GeoffW

IIRC, recording music to tape from the radio was permitted for personal use because the broadcaster had paid a royalty to play it,

Correct. I forget the exact period of time you're allowed to store a broadcast for (either radio or TV) it's something like 28 days - after which time they must be destoryed or wiped.