"cancelled" E_mail retrieval from NTL

yabbadoo · 31-01-2005, 17:48

Is it possible to retreive an e_mail inadvertently marked for deletion, from the server?

2 scenarios -
MAILWASHER - looks at mail on server, and mail can be deleted without download.
OE6 - messages in "delete" folder are cancelled when folder emptied.

Daughter came to us on vacation, sent me an e_mail from HER work which needed her action during vacation. I accidentally deleted it. NTL failed to respond to request to get it back.

I thought it was a legal requirement for ISP's to store ALL e_mail (deleted or not) for a period of time (National Security measure). If this is so, then NTL could have actioned this request, couldn't they?

Keytops · 31-01-2005, 18:08

Wouldn't it of been easier and quicker to get the email resent?

50420 · 31-01-2005, 18:19

dunno if its at all possible to retrieve an email that has been 'marked for deletion' on the server. I have seen emails, sent in error to wrongly addressed recipitents, being recalled from the server before being sent.. but the only times i've seen this succesful is when acted upon immediatly...literally within a minute or two.

as regards the 'legal requirements...to store all emails' if your, or anyone else's emails had content that could be regarded as sensitive to national security.. then i would have to suggest your using the wrong service provider.
I wouldnt have thought that any isp that provides a service to home users has any legal obligation to store all emails..deleted or not.

yabbadoo · 31-01-2005, 18:53

She sent mail from her work to my mail account, came to us on vacation. Not possible to get some-one else to re-send, it was Christmas, her office closed down.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50420

dunno if its at all possible to retrieve an email that has been 'marked for deletion' on the server. I have seen emails, sent in error to wrongly addressed recipitents, being recalled from the server before being sent.. but the only times i've seen this succesful is when acted upon immediatly...literally within a minute or two.

as regards the 'legal requirements...to store all emails' if your, or anyone else's emails had content that could be regarded as sensitive to national security.. then i would have to suggest your using the wrong service provider.
I wouldnt have thought that any isp that provides a service to home users has any legal obligation to store all emails..deleted or not.

So you think terrorists and criminals have their own exclusive ISP's? Don't recall where I read about the requirement for ISP's to store mail, but it makes sense to me. We are in a "Big Brother" state now - all e_mails are vetted for critical key-words and flagged up to the security services already.
It's only possible to stop out-going e_mail if one has admin rights/access to the Local server, and e_mail is batch processed. As you say, usually within minutes, as such batches are normally processed several times an hour.

nostra · 31-01-2005, 19:07

ahem very big brother and as such there is no such legal requirement

wonder how long it is before MI5 start chasing me for my email server logs

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabbadoo

As you say, usually within minutes, as such batches are normally processed several times an hour.

most maillogs are processed every couple of seconds

Keytops · 31-01-2005, 19:44

Much as I hate to add fuel to the fire - should she really of relied on NTL's email to even be working? If I was going on vacation and for whatever reason had to work on something while there, I would never of relied on email, let alone NTL's so called 'email service'. Nothing is 100% reliable and even if NTL do store all emails (which I very much doubt they do) they would be under no obligation whatsoever to restore it for her; this is a 'home use' service after all.

50420 · 31-01-2005, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabbadoo

She sent mail from her work to my mail account, came to us on vacation. Not possible to get some-one else to re-send, it was Christmas, her office closed down.
__________________

So you think terrorists and criminals have their own exclusive ISP's? Don't recall where I read about the requirement for ISP's to store mail, but it makes sense to me. We are in a "Big Brother" state now - all e_mails are vetted for critical key-words and flagged up to the security services already.
It's only possible to stop out-going e_mail if one has admin rights/access to the Local server, and e_mail is batch processed. As you say, usually within minutes, as such batches are normally processed several times an hour.

i dont remember stating or implying that terrorists and criminals have their own exclusive ISP's.. and to be honest i really wouldnt know.
it seems to me...and please forgive me if i'm wrong, but, from the original post, that your trying to shift some of your responsibility in deleting THAT mail over to ntl.
dont get me wrong...i dont subscribe to the 'ntl can do no wrong' brigade, far...FAR from it. just seems ...to me anyways.. that your trying to attach some blame to ntl for your actions. and to an extent i may agree with your reasoning behind ISP's storing all emails.. in my opinion it would be impractical for any Home broadband provider to do this...

quadplay · 31-01-2005, 20:59

Nope, sorry. Once it's deleted via POP3, it's gone, and that's it. If you delete a message via webmail, it will normally be moved to the Trash, but if deleted from the Trash, again, it's gone. There's no way to get it back. The only backups kept are of the whole mail storage server, and they're not going to search through a backup of the whole server for one email.

yabbadoo · 01-02-2005, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50420

i dont remember stating or implying that terrorists and criminals have their own exclusive ISP's.. and to be honest i really wouldnt know.
it seems to me...and please forgive me if i'm wrong, but, from the original post, that your trying to shift some of your responsibility in deleting THAT mail over to ntl.
dont get me wrong...i dont subscribe to the 'ntl can do no wrong' brigade, far...FAR from it. just seems ...to me anyways.. that your trying to attach some blame to ntl for your actions. and to an extent i may agree with your reasoning behind ISP's storing all emails.. in my opinion it would be impractical for any Home broadband provider to do this...

Blame was entirely mine, I deleted it. All I wanted to know was whether it was possible for NTL to retrieve it. Have no issues with NTL, been a client for years, few problems. Minor moan is calling them on the 0845 "charged" service no. it's never taken less than 20 minutes hanging on, to finally talk to some-one. Other than that, NTL service is fine!

yabbadoo · 01-02-2005, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keytops

Much as I hate to add fuel to the fire - should she really of relied on NTL's email to even be working? If I was going on vacation and for whatever reason had to work on something while there, I would never of relied on email, let alone NTL's so called 'email service'. Nothing is 100% reliable and even if NTL do store all emails (which I very much doubt they do) they would be under no obligation whatsoever to restore it for her; this is a 'home use' service after all.

As said elsewhere - mea culpa - I accidentally deleted it. I have no complaint about NTL's service, quite the opposite. Only probs ever were either scheduled server upgrades, or a thicko with big shovel and small brain severing a street cable (twice!) - hardly NTL's fault!.
Have used e_mail for best part of 20 years, it's 99.999% reliable - personally have yet to experience an inexplicable failure. Sending "work" home by e_mail is routine ( for us, anyway) and has never failed.
I agree, it's unlikely that NTL (or any ISP) would respond to a "cry for help" of this nature from a private individual. Want to bet that officialdom (backed by Court Order) wouldn't succeed?