General Election

Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?


*not including the farrago that was the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)

Will comment more later, however for now I’d observe that it’s traditional to date modern politics from 1945, not 1973. While that is now almost a lifetime ago, I think it’s fair to say that perceptions of both our main political parties arise as much from the post-war period as they do from the 1970s. That being the case, Labour has had 30 years of power rather than 13, which admittedly is not very much better.

[Hom3r]

I was able to vote under Thatcher, and my parents voted labour, at the time she was know as milk snatcher Thatcher.

I had always voted labour, but that changed when the then leader JC was a leaver, but switched to remain as Conservatives were a leave party (after DC left) .

Being a leaver I could not vote a remainer party, and switched to Tory.

It would surprise me if labour would try and take us back in to the EU and surrendering the pound and switch us to the Euro.

I cannot see me voting for Labour in the foreseeable future.

I should add I refrained from saying Liebour instead of labour.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?


*not including the farrago that was the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)

I will also post in depth later when I have the time. I would just like to pull you up on something.

the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)[/i]

Voted on yes, based on a pack of lies, a complete fiction put forward by Blair and Campbell, just because Blair had promised his support to Bush.

How they never got done for misleading parliament is beyond me compared to recent goings on.

So, I therefore, reject that caveat to your question.

I very much doubt I will ever vote again.Sadly we are now basically a two party country so voting liberal or green is just a meaningless gesture. If labour ever returns to it's historic basis on which it was founded I may vote again.Mind as the constituency in which I reside has always been a firmly Conservative I've never had any hope of a change.Neither Labour or anyone else has ever had a toehold here.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Will comment more later, however for now I’d observe that it’s traditional to date modern politics from 1945, not 1973. While that is now almost a lifetime ago, I think it’s fair to say that perceptions of both our main political parties arise as much from the post-war period as they do from the 1970s. That being the case, Labour has had 30 years of power rather than 13, which admittedly is not very much better.

Not sure that's correct, Labour and the Tories used to compete on who could build the most council houses in the 60's I'd say Hugh has it pretty much spot on with his dates

Originally Posted by Hom3r

I was able to vote under Thatcher, and my parents voted labour, at the time she was know as milk snatcher Thatcher.

I had always voted labour, but that changed when the then leader JC was a leaver, but switched to remain as Conservatives were a leave party (after DC left) .

Being a leaver I could not vote a remainer party, and switched to Tory.

It would surprise me if labour would try and take us back in to the EU and surrendering the pound and switch us to the Euro.

I cannot see me voting for Labour in the foreseeable future.

I should add I refrained from saying Liebour instead of labour.

Corbyn was a leaver long before it was fashionable, you could even make a strong argument that his lack of action in the campaign until the end contributed to our leaving. Might be better imo to base voting intentions of what's actually happened to you and your family over the last 13 years rather than speculate on what probably won't happen years down the line

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy

I very much doubt I will ever vote again.Sadly we are now basically a two party country so voting liberal or green is just a meaningless gesture. If labour ever returns to it's historic basis on which it was founded I may vote again.Mind as the constituency in which I reside has always been a firmly Conservative I've never had any hope of a change.Neither Labour or anyone else has ever had a toehold here.

It splits the vote Liberals and labour voters, anyone who promised proportional representation would get my vote

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?


*not including the farrago that was the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)

My initial take is that the framing of the question is slightly wrong. The issue is not really should I vote for Labour, rather it is, given the damage inflicted on the country under Conservative governments, why wouldn't you vote Labour/LibDem/SNP/etc?

[Mr K]

Being in a constituency where Labour have no chance, and the Lib Dems are the opposition, is the reason I don't vote Labour. It has to be tactical voting, our system sucks.

Tactical voting out is too complicated for many to work out, and they shouldn't have to. Every vote should be equal, but unless you are in one of the marginal constituencies it's largely meaningless.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I will also post in depth later when I have the time. I would just like to pull you up on something.



Voted on yes, based on a pack of lies, a complete fiction put forward by Blair and Campbell, just because Blair had promised his support to Bush.

How they never got done for misleading parliament is beyond me compared to recent goings on.

So, I therefore, reject that caveat to your question.

It wasn’t that simple - Iain Duncan Smith strongly supported it, because of his links to US neo-Cons, and dragged the Party along with him.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...acked-the-war/

Why, then, did traditional Tory scepticism fail to make an impact at Westminster? The main reason was that any change in party policy was impossible under the current leadership. As shadow defence secretary in the late 1990s, IDS had developed close contacts with neoconservative think-tanks in the US, whose blueprint for a new American security policy has since been adopted by the Bush administration. Their chief concern was the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and the need to take pre-emptive action to ensure that they did not fall into the hands of rogue states and terrorist organisations. IDS shared these concerns. He made his first speech warning of the dangers of WMDs in 1995, and subsequently wrote about the risks in a pamphlet published in 2000 that was reissued in 2002. Indeed, IDS had been talking about the need to tackle Iraq long before 11 September.

Given his track record on the issue, IDS could hardly do anything other than take a hawkish line on Iraq. Nor was there much attempt by his colleagues in the shadow Cabinet to persuade him to tone down his rhetoric. According to one shadow Cabinet member, Iraq was regularly discussed but at no stage did anyone express strong reservations over the policy. Outside the shadow Cabinet, a number of junior frontbench spokesmen did express reservations – indeed, four were to quit – but the shadow Cabinet itself was comfortable with the policy. Nor was there much resistance offered in the 1922 Committee, dismissed by many MPs as ‘virtually defunct’. About 25 MPs, many of whom were critical of party policy, turned up to hear IDS speak at a meeting in September 2002, but there was little consensus over what alternative strategy the party might credibly pursue. Indeed, Tory opponents of the war refused to do what Labour opponents were doing and organise themselves to lobby their colleagues. Nobody wanted to be accused of engineering party splits.

Meanwhile, the leadership went out of its way to win over doubters. Throughout February and March, the shadow Foreign Office team of Michael Ancram and Alan Duncan (who struggled to overcome his own reservations about the party’s hardline stance) held a weekly meeting to discuss the policy with backbench MPs. Bernard Jenkin, the shadow defence spokesman and, along with IDS, by far the most hawkish member of the shadow Cabinet, also spoke to waverers. At the same time, the whips mounted a successful operation to bring doubters into line.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Not sure that's correct, Labour and the Tories used to compete on who could build the most council houses in the 60's I'd say Hugh has it pretty much spot on with his dates

Not at all - a defining issue at every general election since 1945 has been the welfare state. It was established by the Attlee Labour government elected in 1945 and every single election since then has seen one part or another of the welfare state as a major issue, the NHS most of all. Labour was elected in part on its warning that there were ‘24 hours to save the NHS’ in 1997. The welfare state fundamentally changed the way this country is administered. How much tax is collected and how it is spent is an entirely different question in government today than it was in 1939, because of decisions taken between 1945 and 1951.

The way the Tories and Labour have approached the NHS and the wider welfare state is fundamental to how those parties are understood by the electorate and so you cannot fully understand public attitudes to the parties unless you understand how their approaches to the NHS has become folklore - and the issues of folklore is very much implicit in Hugh’s original question.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?


*not including the farrago that was the Iraq War (which was also supported by the Conservatives)

A) There're the WMD lies, Sir Tony taking for granted the votes in 'safe' seats and doing nothing in return for the support they gave.

B) I'll not vote for them because the leadership couldn't give a damn about working class people. Keir talks about his sister working for the NHS but let's be honest, he's only Labour because he's a career Liberal who's worked out he's not going to be able to feed his ego if he shows his true colours. The party is meant to be democratic but Keir is going out of his way to stamp on it.

C) An apology, a change in leadership and a change in direction back towards supporting the working class would be a start.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Not at all - a defining issue at every general election since 1945 has been the welfare state. It was established by the Attlee Labour government elected in 1945 and every single election since then has seen one part or another of the welfare state as a major issue, the NHS most of all. Labour was elected in part on its warning that there were ‘24 hours to save the NHS’ in 1997. The welfare state fundamentally changed the way this country is administered. How much tax is collected and how it is spent is an entirely different question in government today than it was in 1939, because of decisions taken between 1945 and 1951.

The way the Tories and Labour have approached the NHS and the wider welfare state is fundamental to how those parties are understood by the electorate and so you cannot fully understand public attitudes to the parties unless you understand how their approaches to the NHS has become folklore - and the issues of folklore is very much implicit in Hugh’s original question.

Yeah the point was though the tories have taken a very different approach to the welfare state since the 70's than they did before in that they used to compete with labour to make it better whereas in the last fifty years they've done all they could to destroy it

Originally Posted by Hugh

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

Hmm, thats since 1973 then ?
Labour were in power 1974 to 1979, and 1997 - 2010 were they not ?
I make that 18 years, not 13.

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE=Hugh;36158489]Questions for CF-ers, who have said they will never vote Labour.

(this being asked by a 66 year old who has never voted Labour).


A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?[SEPH]:In the last 50 years, Labour have achieved nothing of importance. It’s always more of the same + technology. Tories are not much better.


B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

[SEPH]: That’s a poorly phrased question. Sort of cart before the horse. I can predict what they’ll try to do if they gain power - and that’s kow-tow to the unions and make us even more competitive than we currently are. My instinct is that they will crap on everyone in the name of levelling-down and achieve nothing.

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?

[SEPH]: Nothing. That said, the Tories, my party, are a disaster. Both Israel and France started new parties that took their elections by storm, but ending up proving that most leading politicians are the same - bad eggs


We are in a mess.

A) considering that the Labour Party have only been in power for 13 out of the last 50 years, what did they do in that time* that makes you feel that way?

B) What do you think the Labour Party will do if they get elected, that would make you not vote for them?

C) What could persuade you to vote for them?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

It wasn’t that simple - Iain Duncan Smith strongly supported it, because of his links to US neo-Cons, and dragged the Party along with him.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...acked-the-war/

That’s all very interesting, but without the fiction put forward by Blair and Campbell, I would doubt they would have been able to sell it to the wider Tory benches.