The law is an ass

[Osem]

Two "barbaric" men have each been given life sentences for beating a couple and dousing them with boiling water during a burglary at their home.
John and Janis Buswell were tied up with cable ties and tortured during a two-hour ordeal in Halstead, Kent.
Chelmsford Crown Court heard they were also threatened with a knife and a hot iron last April.
Daniel Wallace, 33, and Kacey Adams, 34, were told they would serve a minimum of seven-and-a-half-years each.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39483801

Seven and a half years for such a cold calculated torture is nothing IMHO.

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39483801

Seven and a half years for such a cold calculated torture is nothing IMHO.

It should of been their natural life hard labour.

There are strict legal guidelines for judges who have to set a minimum tariff when they impose a life sentence. Nevertheless this is a minimum tariff and there is no guarantee they will get out after 7.5 years.

[lexio]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39483801

Seven and a half years for such a cold calculated torture is nothing IMHO.

I agree. This is madness.

[tweetiepooh]

The each received 3 life sentences and judging by their behaviour and attitude they are not likely to get out in 7 years. But as already commented there has to be a prospect of release else can end up with no hope and extreme behaviour inside prison.

[Osem]

There is no guarantee of course and yes there is an argument for giving time off for good behaviour etc. but the fact remains they may get out after this relatively short period and IMHO that's not good enough for the cold, calculated torture of 2 defenceless people whose scars and nightmares won't have any such minimum term.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

But as already commented there has to be a prospect of release ...

No there doesnt.
One life sentance should remove the prospect of release, nevemind three of them.

Originally Posted by Osem

..and yes there is an argument for giving time off for good behaviour etc.

There really is no argument for this.
These are very nasty people who should never be let out.

This whole soft approach is one reason why we have so many violent criminals.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul M

This whole soft approach is one reason why we have so many violent criminals.

It's a nice soundbite but when you actually think about it that just doesn't add up

Yes it does.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Yes it does.

How come there's still violent crime in America, China and Saudi Arabia, how comes people we're still murdering when we used to hang them or thieving when we used to hang children for stealing bread. Fact is criminals don't expect to get caught committing crime, that's why they still commit them in those countries mentioned. It's a complicated issue that deserves to be treated with more respect than a throw away line that's no better than "religion causes all wars". That said I do seem to remember reading somewhere that to shorter sentence doesn't help recidivism rates and the ideal tariff to turn a prisoner around was two years but then that was when there was money invested in prisons and they weren't farmed out to private companies to squeeze as much profit out of it as possible.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Paul M

No there doesnt.
One life sentance should remove the prospect of release, nevemind three of them.


There really is no argument for this.
These are very nasty people who should never be let out.

This whole soft approach is one reason why we have so many violent criminals.

I'll just clarify and say that for certain groups of criminal there ought to be no prospect of early release. I do think it's right though that for lower level criminals there is an incentive to behave well whilst in prison. The level of that possible 'discount' would depend on the circumstances.

I'd like to see a situation in which anyone released early who goes on to repeat offend has the unserved remainder of their original tariff added to their new one. I do think we can't keep giving criminals second chances.

There is no prospect of early release for the criminals in this case.

I think there is a degree of misunderstanding of what a life sentence actually is in the UK. It does not mean life behind bars. It means jail for an indeterminate period, not less than the tariff set by the judge, with release only when the tariff has been fulfilled, and the offender is considered to be sufficiently punished and rehabilitated and not representing an ongoing risk to the community.

Even when a lifer is released from prison, because they have a life sentence they are out on licence for the rest of their life and can be returned to prison, without any further conviction, if they breach their licence terms.

If these criminals are released from jail after 7 years (and that's unlikely), then they will not have been released "early". They will have been released in accordance with the tariff set by the court.

[Sirius]

Why does this not surprise me at all.

Originally Posted by Chris

There is no prospect of early release for the criminals in this case.

I think there is a degree of misunderstanding of what a life sentence actually is in the UK. It does not mean life behind bars. It means jail for an indeterminate period, not less than the tariff set by the judge, with release only when the tariff has been fulfilled, and the offender is considered to be sufficiently punished and rehabilitated and not representing an ongoing risk to the community.

Even when a lifer is released from prison, because they have a life sentence they are out on licence for the rest of their life and can be returned to prison, without any further conviction, if they breach their licence terms.

If these criminals are released from jail after 7 years (and that's unlikely), then they will not have been released "early". They will have been released in accordance with the tariff set by the court.

And during that period out on licence if they get it they get the chance to do this again. It's happened before i seem to remember

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Why does this not surprise me at all.



And during that period out on licence if they get it they get the chance to do this again. It's happened before i seem to remember

Several times from memory.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Why does this not surprise me at all.



And during that period out on licence if they get it they get the chance to do this again. It's happened before i seem to remember

Yes it has happened before. Nevertheless, we can't keep every violent criminal behind bars on a whole life term. It would cost an absolute fortune, require the building of a lot more jails and it would also be unjust. We have to allow for the possibility of rehabilitation.