public accounts committee blast workfare performance

[mertle]

not sure there workfare thread could not find it but developming news is its been slated by mp's public accounts committee.

Some worrying stats have come out. Damning evidence what they call creaming and parking. The committee shared concerns that providers were concentrating on people more likely to generate a fee, and sidelining jobless clients who required more time and investment - a process known as ''creaming and parking''.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...medium=twitter

Only 3.8% found sustainable work lower the impending target of 11% government wanted. Some stats in some areas shocking.

One particulary serious worry is the disabled been severly treated. Which was warned to this government before they went halfcocked it would happen.

Margaret Hodge, who chairs the committee, said the programme was particularly failing young people and the hardest to help.
She said: "It is shocking that of the 9,500 former incapacity benefit claimants referred to providers, only 20 people have been placed in a job that has lasted three months, while the poorest-performing provider did not manage to place a single person in the under-25 category into a job lasting six months."

http://www.mssociety.org.uk/get-invo...welfare-reform

Ms society reveal another worry on numbers for ESA cliaments on WP.

The figures are stark: out of 68,000 ESA claimants placed on the Work Programme since it began only 1,000 have found jobs lasting three months or more.

The government got hang heads in shame. How much we waisted in these jokers out of welfare budget.

The MPs warned that, given the poor performance, there was a high risk that one or more providers would fail and go out of business or have their contracts cancelled.
"Given the poor performance across providers, there is a high risk that one or more will fail – either they will go out of business or the department will cancel their contracts," the report says. "The Department will need to keep a close eye on which providers are most likely to fail and must manage all consequential risks."
The report also reveals that all 18 organisations involved in the Work Programme, which include companies such as A4e and Ingeus Deloitte, have been placed on "performance improvement plans" and that in seven cases, organisations had been sent formal letters warning of unacceptable standards.

Interesting DWP head in sand approach they wont do anything more with slimeball as there boss.

I hope heads roll why disabled in general being slammed in serious hardship. Looking figures for them many will endup lifetime JSA or ESA working group. Never have a job because they too hard to put them in job permanent ignored.

[Ramrod]

Why is it the governments job to find people a job?
Personally, I have always considered it my own task to find work for myself.

[TheDaddy]

This is.the scheme where the tax payer was screwed royally by providers wasn't it, where people who got their own jobs were bribed to say they got them, where the same client was billed for twice and over Billing was rife and now there's a risk some of the providers might go out of business, good they shouldn't have any bother getting another job they're experts after all.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Why is it the governments job to find people a job?
Personally, I have always considered it my own task to find work for myself.

because some of the lazy, bone idle little scroats out there can't go to the toilet without the governments help

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Why is it the governments job to find people a job?
Personally, I have always considered it my own task to find work for myself.

agreed but there been whip histeria about benefit scroungers by this government. When there little work out there for them to find. although there is areas of vunerable who need genuine help disabled/long tern/no skills but the systems this rubbish replaced did far more help getting full/part time PAID work.

We could look the data two fold either it proves no/little jobs exist at present. Otherwise the other conclussion companies was leafing the system to make wonga such as A4E, tesco's etc . To think tesco's given 50 million to shareholders maybe the government should asked for there handout too.

That I found apparantly this whole charade costing 7bn. More than what it would cost if we did absolute nothing let all those just sign on is just madness. Its another corporate scrounging welfare system. It actually replaced a system which was working Future Jobs Fund. what they should done was broadened FJF. No it was from previous government lets get rid.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...s-8374461.html

For me this quote from person replying to the article sums up the whole fiasco.

(By AMGOOO)
The actual cost of the Work Programme is approximately £7 billion, which would make it more costly than the entire Job Seekers Allowance bill. Yes, that’s right – IDS’ genius “welfare reform” which supposedly saves money, is costing more than the dole paid to every recipient (£54 or £71 per week).
I find the vagueness of the DWP’s response quite telling:

"The Work Programme gives support to claimants for two years and it hasn't even been running that long yet, so it's still

early days

”

What deliberately vague terms in the face of no evidence. Not even the spin masters at the DWP can gerrymander a fundamentally crap policy. The WP has been running for almost two years now, and given how the private sector is automatically more efficient than the public sector, what went wrong? Could it be that the private sector can cock up, too?
In fact, given the alleged and proven fraud and wrong-doing at many major Work Programme providers, it is perhaps time for alarm bells to start ringing. There is little accountability or scrutiny with these providers, with Freedom of Information requests unable to be conducted, despite these firms receive many billions of public money.

“Previous schemes, the department said, had paid out "too much up front regardless of success. But by paying providers for delivering results, the Work Programme is actually offering the taxpayer real value for money."

Again, more vagueness. Work Programme providers get automatic referral fees once someone joins the WP, and the fee increases if someone has a disability – it is hardly “payment by results”.
Job Seekers Allowance is deemed too generous by some (IDS now thinks that JSA is a livable wage), but when the JSA bill is lower than the cost of the Work Programme – it delivers anything but “value for money”.

"However, robust data published by ERSA last November shows that the Work Programme is placing more people into work month on month and we can already see the programme having a demonstrable impact in reducing long-term unemployment as evidenced in this week's labour market statistics."

How irrelevant, the improving labour market has nothing to do with the success of the Work Programme. My goodness, how desperate must one be to make that connection?
Personally, the Work Programme does precisely the opposite of what was envisaged. It only kicks in after 9 or 12 months, and even after that period, there is no guarantee or certainty for suitable employment opportunities. The Future Jobs Fund was far more effective, because it kicked in earlier, immediately addressed the unemployment issue, got people off benefits, and, offered genuine wages for people.
As a recent Panaroma edition showed, major private providers can’t be trusted to appropriately help disabled/sick people – with verbal abuse from Work Programme staff towards the most vulnerable in society.

What about the last two paragraphs of the OP's Guardian article link?

Kirsty McHugh, chief executive of the back to work industry body, the Employment Related Services Association, said, "The public accounts committee should rightly focus on the Work Programme achieving value for money for the taxpayer, and data published by ERSA shows that the Work Programme is the most cost effective scheme relative to any comparable scheme so far.

"'These outcome statistics relate to the earliest days of the Work Programme and caution is needed before we can judge its overall effectiveness.

"However, robust data published by ERSA last November shows that the Work Programme is placing more people into work month on month and we can already see the programme having a demonstrable impact in reducing long-term unemployment as evidenced in this week's labour market statistics."

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

What about the last two paragraphs of the OP's Guardian article link?

Oh they don't matter! We don't want any good news spoiling the fun do we? I mean that'd imply that HMG is actually doing something good instead of just spending every waking hour coming up with new ways to screw the poor, unemployed, sick, disabled etc.

Originally Posted by Hugh

What about the last two paragraphs of the OP's Guardian article link?

It seems that as normal the actual facts and truth are buried at the bottom where the paper hopes nobody reads

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 15:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh they don't matter! We don't want any good news spoiling the fun do we? I mean that'd imply that HMG is actually doing something good instead of just spending every waking hour coming up with new ways to screw the poor, unemployed, sick, disabled etc.

Haven't you heard,it's all slave labour ,nobody gets a job from schemes and nobody learns anything .
The only people these schemes don't work for are those who go into them with the attitude that they aren't going work, and when faced with that attitude from prospective employees an employer isn't go to waste their time

[Taf]

My son starts on a scheme next Monday.

He was interviewed by one provider who then passed him to another. Now he'll have to attend "about 10 hours a week, at least a couple of times a week" until he finishes the course in his own time.

He reckoned he'd do about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, but the provider told him he wouldn't as they have "limited resources" for him to attend that long or that often.

"Spread the course over several months," he was told, "then you won't have any hassle having to go back to the DWP".

[Osem]

Hope it all works out for your lad Taf!

I'm sure you'll let us and your MP know if it turns out the scheme he's on is some form of sham.

[mertle]

I disturbed by this selfish atitude. Which dont care about how disabled have been shoved onto scrapheap. Supposed to have had guidence to help them adapt to work through Esa workgroup. I am disturbed that figure that shows only 20 of ex IB got work was there was issue with ATOS accessment maybe?

I will be careful for not getting infraction but sometimes certain posters very indigious Im alright jack atitude. Treat all who unemployed/disabled as bit of nasty stuff which they pick up on shoe and smell.

Go look in mirror se that chip on the shoulder dont hurt you.

That when evidence come up they instantly call all lazy my god what nasty nation we become.

The evidence is there that this scheme is being used by a number organisations to rip off the taxpayer. Hell lets go yippee its all those who at fault went on failed to get work they was lazy bunch scroungers heh. No only scroungers here are Emma Harrison earned herself well more like stealing 8 million taxpayers money.

Your so blinded by delusional selfish atitudes and stereotyping that your blind that a scheme set up is fraudently ripping off the country.

Hugh if they right it working then let them prove it with actual figures. Claiming credit people getting work how many did on own back without these parasites. How many those they put in work worked more 6 months.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

because some of the lazy, bone idle little scroats out there can't go to the toilet without the governments help

Originally Posted by mertle

I disturbed by this selfish atitude. Which dont care about how disabled have been shoved onto scrapheap. Supposed to have had guidence to help them adapt to work through Esa workgroup. I am disturbed that figure that shows only 20 of ex IB got work was there was issue with ATOS accessment maybe?

I will be careful for not getting infraction but sometimes certain posters very indigious Im alright jack atitude. Treat all who unemployed/disabled as bit of nasty stuff which they pick up on shoe and smell.

Go look in mirror se that chip on the shoulder dont hurt you.

That when evidence come up they instantly call all lazy my god what nasty nation we become.

The evidence is there that this scheme is being used by a number organisations to rip off the taxpayer. Hell lets go yippee its all those who at fault went on failed to get work they was lazy bunch scroungers heh. No only scroungers here are Emma Harrison earned herself well more like stealing 8 million taxpayers money.

Your so blinded by delusional selfish atitudes and stereotyping that your blind that a scheme set up is fraudently ripping off the country.

Hugh if they right it working then let them prove it with actual figures. Claiming credit people getting work how many did on own back without these parasites. How many those they put in work worked more 6 months.

Nice rational discussion - so if people don't agree with you, that's what you think of them?

Do you mean these figures?

On the face of it, the Government Job Outcome figures were poor. However, there is a more promising picture building in the pipeline. By the end of September 2012, ERSA figures show that the industry had helped 207,831 individual jobseekers into work, with 29% of those who started the Work Programme in June 2012 having found employment. The rate at which providers were helping jobseekers into work has also rapidly improved. In February 2012, that was running at about 11,000 in month; by September this had doubled to over 22,000.

Or these?

The Government figures published today show that at least 56 per cent of the scheme’s earliest participants have come off benefits, with 19 per cent spending at least six consecutive months off benefits.

The Work Programme was launched in June 2011 and involves private and voluntary sector organisations being paid according to their success in helping the long-term unemployed back into work. More than 200,000 participants had been found some work by September, according to data published by the Employment Related Services Association (ERSA).

By the end of July 2012, 31,000 people had remained in a job for several months – most for six months and some harder-to-help claimants for at least three months.

Industry analysis of the programme shows the taxpayer pays significantly less for each participant on the Work Programme than under previous schemes, like the Future New Deal, where providers were paid up front regardless of whether they delivered results.

The ERSA data shows every job started so far has cost £2,097, compared to £7,495 per job under the Flexible New Deal.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nice rational discussion - so if people don't agree with you, that's what you think of them?

Do you mean these figures?

Quite. Sounds like stereotyping to me. Odd from someone who was criticising others for so doing...

Evidently some people only believe the figures and explanations which suit their agenda.

Originally Posted by Osem

Quite. Sounds like stereotyping to me. Odd from someone who was criticising others for so doing...

Evidently some people only believe the figures and explanations which suit their agenda.

Personally i am getting sick and tired of people assuming that if anyone supports these schemes and dares to suggest that they are perfect for the workshy, those people are accused of being "selfish" ,of "steriotyping" of treating people like "bit of nasty stuff which they pick up on shoe and smell".Well they are going to have deal with it because there is a lot more coming and they are not going to like it