Virgin Media's campaign: stopthebroadbandcon.org

[MovedGoalPosts]

For some time now Virgin Media has been claiming the moral high ground, boosted by Ofcom's own survey's, that they have the fastest broadband availability, and that speeds are likely to be consistent. VM are now taking this a step further with http://www.stopthebroadbandcon.org/ trying to get us to sign up to a campagin to stop the misleading use of "up to" broadband speeds especially for ADSL products.

The imbalance of ADSL advertising has always existed, and I seem to recall there being past suggestions from the like of Ofcom that there should be change.

The reality is though, is it not buyer beware and the consumer needs to read the small print? Are VM really totally blameless? There are plenty of incidences cited on this forum where people are ina congested area so don't see the speeds expected. Worse, it's only when you read the small print that people find issues with trafic managment policies.

My view is that before we worry too much about claimed speed advertising, they should first be tackling the misuse of "unlimited" which somehow has become twisted to simply mean "always on" when comared to a now defunct dial up, and yet STM and related policies mean for many their use is far from their envisaged "unlimited".

Perhaps ISPs like Virgin Media shouldn't be throwing stones in glasshouses?

[haydnwalker]

Agreed, maybe they should cite average speeds not up-to or theoretical max speeds.

[MovedGoalPosts]

I see The Register has already picked up on this and quite resonably highlights a need for VM to practice what they are preaching:

A good call, but it's case would be strengthened enormously, we'd say, if it had the bottle to do so itself. "Up to 10Mb speed," says the company's website this morning of its own L offering, and its XL and XXL packages are similarly promoted. And not just in the small print - in a big, in-yer-face graphic too.

[Ignitionnet]

A number of ISPs subscribe to the Ofcom code of practise and give an estimated speed at the time of ordering.

Virgin do give a performance figure however it's a very carefully put one which flatters them over ADSL providers.

Virgin are far from transparent with the variety of limitations they put on their customers' service in order to justify unlimited advertising, it is debatable how much of the moral high ground on being open they can supply while they continue to advertise an unlimited service with 3 separate controls on it and continue to warn customers and terminate their service for breaking a limit they won't give.

[nutellajunkie]

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie... Need I quote any more from the dictionary?

[Toto]

Well, based on the most recent Ofcom results, it would appear that bragging rights in terms of advertised and actual speeds lies with Virgin Media, for the moment.

[Gary L]

IIRC didn't Virgin do this hypocritical thing before?

is it just a mindgame where consumers will think that Virgin are the best if they don't like this practice from other ISPs?

Virgin wheeled out company founder Richard Branson to say: "I’m challenging all broadband providers to be honest with their customers."
If that means ditching the "up to", Virgin, we challenge you show a lead

Agreed! they daren't take the lead and do away with 'up to'

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:52 ----------

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has upheld BT’s complaint and ordered Virgin Media to make it implicitly clear download speeds may vary.

In its published investigation of the matter, the ASA concluded the media campaign failed to make it clear customers on Virgin Media's lower speed packages would only be able to download TV shows at the speeds advertised during off-peak hours.

http://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/vi...-02072008.html

The Communications Consumer Panel (CCP), which claims to be an independent watchdog for the communications sector but does little to engage with consumers directly, has written to the UK governments Culture Minister (Ed Vaizey) and asked him to compel ISPs to advertise average or typical broadband speed information rather than "up to" speeds.

The panel itself welcomed Ofcom's recent move to toughen its Voluntary Code of Practice on Broadband Speeds (full news), although they expressed concern that it might place too great a burden on consumers in finding out what speed they are getting and addressing lower than expected speeds.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/201...sp-speeds.html

"People are paying for faster and faster broadband but being ripped off by unscrupulous providers who can’t deliver their promised speeds to even a single customer. A change in advertising is urgently needed to build consumer confidence in super-fast broadband and the industry more generally. In the meantime, I hope other ISPs will quickly follow Virgin Media’s lead by disclosing their own monthly performance data so people can make an informed decision about how to spend their money".

We'd be interested to hear whether anyone is actually getting the "up to" speed stated on their package as all the companies, including Virgin media, appear to be still using it. Do you think this term is misleading? Let us know in the comments below.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/3537...ed-advertising

[Paranoimia]

In terms of actual speed, I'm generally very happy with my 20Mb connection, and have very rarely had any issues with it since it was installed in 2001 (then 10Mb). So from that point of view, I'd say I agree with VM's stance.

However, as long as VM have traffic shaping cutting my 20Mb to 5Mb, for any reason, at any time, then I suppose there must be some legal requirement for them to say "up to".

As I've said before, I'm paying for a 20Mb connection, so I should be able to run it flat out 24/7 if I so choose - otherwise, cut my fee by 75% for the same total amount of time that you cut my speed.

Other than that, sort the network out, give a true 20Mb connection (no restrictions at any time), and then you can have the moral high ground all to yourself while taking pot-shots at other providers.

All that being said, after having cable broadband, I'd hope I never have to switch to that phoneline junk. I keep getting letters from BT saying 'come back to us and get up to 8mb broadband and save £100-and-something per year'. Yeah, right... I know I'd get about 2Mb in my area, and even if I could get the maximum, it's still less than half my current speed.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Paranoimia

In terms of actual speed, I'm generally very happy with my 20Mb connection, and have very rarely had any issues with it since it was installed in 2001 (then 10Mb). So from that point of view, I'd say I agree with VM's stance.

You had 10Mb in 2001? Pretty impressive given they didn't release 1Mb until 2002

VM's stance is of course marketing nonsense and given the variety of issues and unhappiness over their own lack of transparency a pretty cynical attempt to win some headlines that has, fortunately, been met largely with derision.

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

Originally Posted by Paranoimia

However, as long as VM have traffic shaping cutting my 20Mb to 5Mb, for any reason, at any time, then I suppose there must be some legal requirement for them to say "up to".

As I've said before, I'm paying for a 20Mb connection, so I should be able to run it flat out 24/7 if I so choose - otherwise, cut my fee by 75% for the same total amount of time that you cut my speed.

Other than that, sort the network out, give a true 20Mb connection (no restrictions at any time), and then you can have the moral high ground all to yourself while taking pot-shots at other providers.

You're paying for a connection capable of 20Mb, not for 20Mb all to yourself that would cost considerably more.

VM's 'up to' is because they can't guarantee performance, they just want to try and point fingers at the physical restrictions of ADSL.

It's odd - VM wittering on about service quality while degrading the quality of their own services by piling them high and selling them cheap. They appear to want to be premium and cheap at the same time which of course doesn't work.

Now if VM want to impress they can advertise like this and offer a guarantee like this.

Google Translate or Chrome required for the above Swedish links.

Essentially though the ISP advertises a minimum speed alongside the maximum and if you can't get that minimum 24x7 they drop your price to the next tier down - while keeping your modem on the same package.

[Gary L]

This will backfire on Virgin by a lot of it's own customers I think. in it's own forum and any site that comments can be left about the hypocrisy of Virgin.

I wouldn't be surprised if ISP's themselves point out the facts of Virgin in return.
the question that will be asked of Virgin is are you going to take the lead and not use the 'up to' anymore? are you going to do away with STM and all the traffic implementations you use that don't allow the customer to receive the full speed you sold them?

do you think your customers feel deceived by you for not giving them the full speed quoted, because you can't?

[Pierre]

True it's marketing ploy, and of course only applies to services within their cable footprint.

However, Virgin Media would extremely foolish not to capitalise on their superior on-net offering.

There is no denying that speeds delivered on-net are superior to their ADSL counterparts
it the vast,vast majority. (there will always be anomalies)

Believe me I wish I lived in a VM area, I jump for joy when I hit 2mb with BT during off-peak periods.

[Ignitionnet]

Wonder if I'll get any response from this Tweet..

ignitionnet

@virginmedia given your interest in transparency on speeds have you considered following Comhem's example? http://bit.ly/dj1kA0

For the lazy.

What is Com Hem Rate Guarantee?

In Com Hem, you always get the broadband speed you pay for.

To make you the Com Hem customer really know what speed you would expect, we have introduced a clearer labeling. The label shows the minimum and the maximum speed for each broadband when you have wired connection between the modem and computer. Try us on the independent site Bredbandskollen.se. Should we not live up to our promise, you have to pay for the lower speed instead. We call it Speed Guarantee.


Remember that the settings in your own computer can also affect the speed of your Broadband. Make sure you have an updated operating system and the latest drivers for your network card. Drivers and software updates can be found with the respective manufacturers. Remember that an old computer with old components, such as processor, network card or disk, make sure your broadband is perceived as slower. Also ensure that you do not have viruses on your computer and that your cables are intact and properly connected to get the most out of your Broadband from Com Hem.

They advertise 50-100Mbps down and 7-10Mbps up on their XXL service, if you drop below 50Mbps down or 7Mbps up you pay for XL but keep the XXL rate cap.

[Gary L]

Translated version.

I doubt they would. they would lose too much money when they slow all the modems down.

[mjpartyboy]

After a lot of problems due to an oversubscribed UBR, our L broadband has been working great lately, but it would be good for Virgin Media to consistently deliver on their own letter.

http://stopthebroadbandcon.org/letter.php

[Joedm45]

That disclaimer made me smile. It was once said that a PC is out of date as soon as it comes off the assembly line.

I wonder how many times their CS reps tell its customers that their PC's/software are out of date so thats why your BB is slow to get out of putting the price down.

Unfortunately we live in a world where lawyers are behind all promotions just to cover a company's back.

I'm not so sure there is a solution to this problem where by customers are happy and the business remains profitable.