large format plotters - advice please

[Dai]

I have a client who has a need to print PDF files of 10Mb and greater. He currently has an elderly HP Designjet 430 which is struggling to cope with these.
He has been recommended to look at the Oce CS2124 A1 plotter or possibly the HP Designjet T610.

Does anyone here have experience of these machines and can help me decide which (if either) would be best for his needs?

TIA.

[MovedGoalPosts]

I've always favoured HP for anything print related. They just seem so reliable. Indeed our office has the DesignJet 430, which is fine for our basic CAD stuff. On that basis, if the T610 will do the job, that's the one I'd go for.

However, it may depend on how many of these things your client really gets to print out. It might be more cost effective to use a print bureau. Many of them will print the electronic file and even deleiver.

[Dai]

The plans from his clients currently arrive in PDF form. Would there be any advantage in converting to a different format before printing?

I'm really not too clued up on the varieties of CAD output and I'm wondering if there's a better way to go.

[MovedGoalPosts]

By using PDF it means the recipient doesn't need the heavy duty commercial software that created it. Given that things like AutoCAD cost £1000s for the software and then you need someone who really knows how it works, PDF seems a neat solution. PDF itself isn't really a format that is openable for conversion. I'd say it will all depend on how many prints he runs what kit is needed. As ever look at the plotter, maybe boosting the standard memory can help?

[Dai]

My thanks for your help so far. I've already boosted the RAM in this 430 from the standard 4Mb to the max 4 + 32Mb so I guess that's as far as I can go.

I'm going to look next at other potential bottlenecks. The print jobs are being sent from various workstations to the SBS2003 server. They are spooled there and sent to the plotter. I'll have to play with options and settings next and see if I can improve matters a bit somehow.

I'm inclined to agree with you about commercial-grade HP printers. He's got a couple of 4100n lasers that just keep on going.. They feel like you could run a truck over them and they wouldn't skip a beat.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Plotting is always a laborious task. It's never going to seem as instant as a laser. It's why the commercial drawing reprographic offices that can afford A1 sized copiers due to volumes they handle from multiple offices exist.

If the plotter is struggling, and the network seems to be struggling too, then put the plotter onto a specific workstation, rather than off the server, so the workstation, not the whole network takes the strain.

[smeagoly1]

I ahave been using at work for the past year two wide format printers, both HP.
At first as all printing had to be on the same network for everyone to use, they both struggled with large file sizes. To the point some jobs gave up half way through, or they just locked up and decided everything was on pause.

Once both got put on a dedicated network or stand alone, they worked with no problems.

Xerox machines also go a bit funny when large files are sent via a network, and tended to need pwoering down and back up again as they slowed up, quite a bit.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by smeagoly1

At first as all printing had to be on the same network for everyone to use, they both struggled with large file sizes. To the point some jobs gave up half way through, or they just locked up and decided everything was on pause.

That's *exactly* what I am seeing. Reassuring to know I'm not alone..

At least that offers a possible work-round. I'll have a chat with the client today and see if we can allocate a workstation as pdf printer. He'll like that much better than a few thousand for a new plotter.

[vonda]

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

I have a client who has a need to print PDF files of 10Mb and greater. He currently has an elderly HP Designjet 430 which is struggling to cope with these.
He has been recommended to look at the Oce CS2124 A1 plotter or possibly the HP Designjet T610.

Does anyone here have experience of these machines and can help me decide which (if either) would be best for his needs?

TIA.

Try [Admin edit (Chris T): Spam removed]. They deal nationwide. Their tech guys are great and helped me get exactly the right machine for what I wanted at a good price! (I didn't know half of the kit I have existed - it's wonderful.)!! They take away your old machine as well which was a bonus for us.

Originally Posted by vonda

Try [spam removed] They deal nationwide. Their tech guys are great and helped me get exactly the right machine for what I wanted at a good price! (I didn't know half of the kit I have existed - it's wonderful.)!! They take away your old machine as well which was a bonus for us.

I bet they were very helpful to you, seeing as you work for them.

Try being a little more honest, and I might think about not banning you from the forum for posting spam.

[Mauldor]

There is an option on the plotter driver to hold the job in the PC ram and not the plotter Ram. What it is doing is trying to send the entire job to the plotter, its running out of Ram and thus failing as you have said. Printing Preferences is were you need to look, end Tab.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Mauldor

There is an option on the plotter driver to hold the job in the PC ram and not the plotter Ram. What it is doing is trying to send the entire job to the plotter, its running out of Ram and thus failing as you have said. Printing Preferences is were you need to look, end Tab.

I'll investigate that today. Cheers.

[altis]

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

The plans from his clients currently arrive in PDF form. Would there be any advantage in converting to a different format before printing?

I'm really not too clued up on the varieties of CAD output and I'm wondering if there's a better way to go.

If it's not too much hassle, I'd experiment getting a file in HP GL/2 (or HP RTL or HP GL) format instead. The client's software will probably be able to generate these easily. Then, to print it, simply COPY the file to the printer port.

I'd hazard a guess that file will be a damn sight smaller in one of these plotter formats. And, since the plotter will understand the file directly, the PC won't have to do any rendering - which, given the size of the plot area, will take an awful lot of RAM.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by altis

If it's not too much hassle, I'd experiment getting a file in HP GL/2 (or HP RTL or HP GL) format instead. The client's software will probably be able to generate these easily. Then, to print it, simply COPY the file to the printer port.

I'd hazard a guess that file will be a damn sight smaller in one of these plotter formats. And, since the plotter will understand the file directly, the PC won't have to do any rendering - which, given the size of the plot area, will take an awful lot of RAM.

Google shows me a few PDF to HPGL converters available. Do you have any experience of these?

If it's possible to do the conversion 'in-house' rather than ask my customer's clients to change their format I'd prefer to go that route first.

[altis]

It might work that way - try it! But it strikes me that you will simply be doing what Acrobat is doing, only offline instead. It depends what the plotter driver generates. But this could be handy if you're printing the same drawing more than once.

I am not sure whether PDFs can efficiently handle line drawings so that they can be converted efficiently to HPGL. I suspect they can, as I have tried printing out a manual that included line drawings on the same laser printer using both its PCL driver and its Postscript driver. The printer's Postscript software did a much better job of the drawings than my computer.

Sadly, I don't think there are any Postscript cartridges for your plotter as that would be an ideal solution.

FYI:
PDFs are like Postscript documents in a wrapper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdf

HPGL is a list of commands like: pen up; pen down; gotoXY.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL