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Originally Posted by andygrif
I think that analogy only suggests that you haven't really considered what my argument is.
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Maybe not, but it is a good analogy of the viewpoint made several times in this thread that because we have nukes, why shouldn't Iran?
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Originally Posted by andygrif
I'm not saying that I think that Iran should have nuclear weapons, I don't like the idea more than you do.
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In which case, I wouldn't be making excuses for them.
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Originally Posted by andygrif
But you are judging their behavior from the Western point of view, which you've been told is that Iran is the baddie and we're the goodie.
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Not entirely, I remember very clearly the debacle over the US Embassy in Tehran. And ever since, the Iranians (sorry, their governments/theocrats) have been preaching hate against the West.
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Originally Posted by andygrif
But Iran hasn't invaded any countries without permission lately, we have.
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Which one? (And don't say Iraq - apart from anything it isn't possible to 'invade with permission' - that wouldn't be an invasion.)
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Originally Posted by andygrif
So doesn't Mr & Mrs 2.4 children in Iran (someone who wishes us no harm at all right now) think that maybe they're not the ones in the wrong here?
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Only because all they hear is the lunatic ranting of their president and his imam friends. I doubt very much that the 'average' Iranian family know much about the West, other than the demonised view of their leaders.
And even if that was all, do they too believe that having nukes is the answer? Do they too have a complete ignorance of world history?
---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------
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Originally Posted by andygrif
Even the rhetoric spouted off about wiping Isreal off the map is just political flexing, I really don't believe, however much they might like the idea, they would ever do anything about it - namely as it would lead to the wiping off the map of Iran instead - and as I said before, the powerful people have no desire to commit suicide.
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If Bush or Blair started talking about 'wiping Iran off the map' I have no doubt that their political career would be over in the turn of a newspaper page. Because we wouldn't tolerate such rash and lunatic ideas to be uttered. Because we know someone might take it seriously.
Well, in Iran, no-one seems to care what lunatic ideas their despot president is spouting across the world. Does that mean they agree? In which case I'm even more worried?
Why should we assume his threats are idle threats? You're telling me that Iran is allowed to take the
implied threat from the West seriously, in which case I'm damn well going to take his direct threats very seriously.
---------- Post added at 15:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------
For anyone doubting the Iranians' president's thinking, you might check out
his website.
He accuses the West of stockpiling AND USING chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Are we to assume from this that once they have nuclear weapons they'll move onto the other ones?
He refers to the West as 'the enemies of Iran' - thereby tarring everyone not willing to simply give in to them with the same brush. Make no mistake - doesn't matter if it's Israel that attacks Iran - we'll STILL get the fallout (pun intended.)
He then goes on to talk about Palestine and trying to tie the issues - at least in the minds of
his readers.
And then:
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Ahmadinejad noted that not only Palestine, but none of the Islamic states will tolerate the Mother of All Corruptions even for a moment.
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Not sure what he means there - I don't think he's referring to
this article, so perhaps he means the US?
By doing that, what is he trying to do - see how many of the other Islamic states will back him in this insanity?
And then he dismisses every Western nation's objections:
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Given you are so upset over hearing a slogan and resort to military threat, you are neither eligible to stake claim to human rights, nor are you competent to promote security and tranquility across the world.
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What? Because we are taking his ranting seriously? Too right we are!
BTW - in a different article from the same site:
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President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in a meeting with the outgoing Turkish Ambassador to Tehran Halit Bozkurt Aran here Monday said that Iran and Turkey are in position to strengthen bonds between the East and West in economic, political and security fields.
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In which case I just can't wait for Turkey to join the EU. Think of the cheap chicken imports.
The Iranian president is trying to fracture every semblance of peace or progress in the Middle East, and for what? So he can have nuclear weapons? And then what? So he can start throwing his weight around like Saddam did?
I just wish the Iranian people would see the folly of the path he is taking.