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Originally Posted by ian@huth
Can you explain why when the oft mentioned The Lounge became non-smoking that non-smokers didn't rush in in droves to sample the smoke free atmosphere? Don't you think that market forces would mean that if the majority of people wanted non-smoking pubs then they would flourish in areas where non-smoking pubs existed. The fact that even where competition in an area between smoking and non-smoking pubs exists there is no movement for more pubs to take the no-smoking route suggests there is something radically wrong with your thinking.
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It seems self-evident to me that following a ban, it would take time for the effect of non-smokers returning to occur, as word of mouth and changing attitudes begin to penetrate. Perhaps you could explain why, despite being presented with evidence to the contrary, you persist in claiming your point by referring to one single establishment (the Lounge), whose non-smoking policy was not even introduced in the context of an outright ban, which is after all what we're meant to be discussing? There is nothing 'radically wrong' with my thinking on this issue.
Think of it this way - the Friday night revellers are that self selecting group who either smoke or don't mind sitting with those who do. They walk past The Lounge and why don't they go in? Because the likelihood is, one or more of their party is a smoker. And because they don't mind the smoke too much, they go somewhere else. Thus The Lounge fails.
Several of us have been saying all along that this ban will only work effectively if it is universally applied to both food and non-food establishments.
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Look at the Health and Safety at Work laws which do not impose a complete ban on smoking. Why can there be a compromise in that law which cannot be equally made in the case of pubs?
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The Law is a constantly evolving and developing thing, and it evolves at the pace society can tolerate. At the time that legislation was drawn up, society was not ready to support such radical action. Now, it is. This smoking ban has been framed as health and safety legislation, so its effect may well be to amend the laws you refer to.