[SlackDad]

Originally Posted by Chris T

I did not say alcohol is not dangerous to health. I said it is not dangerous to health to anything like the same degree as tobacco is. Statistics bear this out. Tobacco smoking is the single biggest cause of preventable premature death in the UK, by a very, very long way.

Not strictly true when compared to obesity rates for example. At least not a 'very, very long way' as you put it. See here, for example.

There is no safe level of smoking - unlike alcohol.
There is no way of smoking that is not dangerous to the person sat next to you - unlike alcohol.

Again, although the dangers to health of smoking are widely known many people live to very old age quite happily whilst smoking for a significant proportion of their lives. This may be the exception but at least questions the fact that there is never a safe level to smoke. Like most things, effects are never in isolation. Other lifestyle factors, i.e. stress, diet, exercise, genetic disposition, etc. all have to be taken into account. Are smoking related illnesses prevalent in the meditteranean, for example, where diets and even factors such as sunlight differ from the UK?
Drinking can be dangerous to the person sat next to you if that person then punches you for example, as a direct effect of intoxication. To say that there is no danger is not true.

As Andyl just said very succinctly, problems arise with alcohol when it is abused. Problems arise with tobacco when it is just used.

Fair comment.

The habit of smoking is indefensible because every smoker is fully aware that their habit is killing them and is adversely affecting those around them also. While it may not be the smoker's deliberate intent to harm themselves or anyone else, they cannot possibly be ignorant of the fact that this is happening. Arguments about freedom and choice pale into complete insignificance next to this.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I can think of many indefensible actions but smoking is not one of them. If somebody wants to put poison in thier body, aware that it may shorten thier lives, it is up to them. In some contexts this may be selfish, but still, is their decision. Perhaps smoking for some, is their one real pleasure in an otherwise hard life. Who knows. Perhaps for others it really helps relieve stress and therefore is a coping mechanism. Again, who knows. But I for one am not going to self-righteously say to anybody they should not be doing this and how selfish they are.

Choosing to indulge in the habit of smoking (I say choosing, some people are big enough to admit they want to stop but don't have the willpower), is absolutely indefensible.

Maybe it's a choice at the start but smoking is an addiction like any other, hence why support is now available on the NHS.