[andygrif]

Originally Posted by littld

Fair comments here.

I think it's a little different than with jeans physically being imported. If we had to look into copyright on the stuff available on the Internet every day (e.g. the BBC news website, for example) then millions of people are "illegally" importing and exporting copyright all the time.

Ah, well that's where copyright law is an interesting beastie...and that's why Levis didn't pursue Tescos for importing physical goods. When we talk of products it is perfectly legal for Mr Tesco to go into a branch of Walmart in the US, buy up his enture stock of 501's (at approx US$ 15 or £9 per pair) stick them in a box, ship them into the UK, pay the UK government VAT and import duty and sell them in your local branch for 15 quid.

What was proven to unlawful, was that the copyright of the jeans, owned by Levi, was infringed when Tescos wanted to sell them in the UK.

So it's not really anything to do with the something that you hold in your hands (or wear on your legs) it's to do with this etherial being that is copyright - and that exists on virtually everything we might phyically own - but we don't buy the copyright when we buy the product. In some cases you might buy a license under copyright (for example you can legally photocopy some pages of a book for some uses such as school work) but you do not own the copyright itself. And whether you're Levi Strauss or Levi Stubbs (geddit?) that remains the same.

Originally Posted by littld

A good legal way to copy music in this country is by recording it from TV or radio - still completely legal here in the UK. You have already paid for the copyright and the right to listen to it via the advertising or the BBC licence fee.

It might be a good way, but it's no more legal. You are NOT permited to record music from the radio or television. You are (sort of) permited to make a 'temporary' video recording of a TV programme - which means that (I think I'm right in the duration here) you can keep a VHS of a TV show for 28 days, after which you must wipe it, destroy it or tape over it.

Now back here in the real world of course no-one is going to come knocking at your door becuase your VHS an edition of Top of the Pops is 29 days old - but technically that's the rule.

Also you have not paid for the copyright. The broadcaster pays the various licensing bodies to do various things with music, including broadcast it. There is nothing in the broadcast license (or indeed a commercial dubbing license) that permits the receiver of the programme to make a copy or copies. (In fact the dubbing license expressly forbids it).

Whilst you pay your TV license fee to the BBC and you buy the Cornflakes that are advertised on local radio or ITV - these are separate to any copyright licensing payments and grant you no rights whatsoever to do anything with what has been broadcast, including taping it.

Originally Posted by danielf

I'd be interested to hear when a person was last prosecuted for recording live radio (or TV for that matter).

I seriously doubt it as long as it was for personal use. There have been people sued for makiong copies of TV and radio programmes and then selling VHS', DVDs and CDs of them.

What a lot of this boils down to is fair use. Contrary to popular belief there is no 'fair-use' clause or excemption in UK copyright rules. Personally I think there should be, as this would avoid much of the ambiguity that has been demonstrated in this and countless other threads on countless other forums.

However, as I mentioned, there is a guideline (not part of the laws) from the EU that licensing bodies and music industry groups should exercise caution when following the letter of the law to closely.

People tape things off the radio, to me that's fine. People make a cassete copy of a CD they own to listen to in the car, to me that's fine too. People making MP3 of the CDs they own to listen to on their iPods - also fine.

People making those same MP3s available on Limewire, newsgroups, whatever - to me that's crossing the line.

Originally Posted by danielf

Home taping has not killed music, and I doubt downloading will.

You're right, home taping didn't kill music. Downloading didn't either - and like you I now also don't think it will. But there were a few very touchy years where it came far far closer than most people realise:

Talented artistes were being dropped from rosters in favour of the cheap pop acts that guaranteed a return. This is still happening - and if you look at the roster of any major label today, it's about 50% of the size it was five years ago. That means that 50% of all signed artists no longer have the mechanism to bring you the music that you used to buy (or download).

These people are largely still making music in some way shape or form - but you'll never hear about them and that was a direct result of massive losses at the time Napster was the big baddy. I'm not saying Napster was solely to blame (I think the labels needed to take some responsibility too) but it was alarge contributory factor.