[Ignition]

Originally Posted by andymt

Ok im not really an expert, but a few questions come into my mind regarding "caps"

1) what is in it for the isp?
I mean, surely the isp wants to reduce the b/w being used at any one time. but why do they want to reduce the amount people use in a month? they are just offering a poorer service. How does capping actually help the isp? there are still off and on peak times, so its still going to be congested.
Also, some adsl services seem to be a con- BT offering 2mb with 1gb cap-this is stupid, because they are advertising that it is very fast, but if you want to use your connection alot, regardless of the speed, you have to pay £29.99, just to use your dsl line that you have paid for!! (and even then its only 30gb cap)

It saves money on having to buy extra capacity, some users user their full bandwidth 24x7 which is insanely expensive.

2) Why do some cap and others dont?
talking of adsl, (and excluding llu because they are different) if aol can provide u/l service, why can't other isps do the same?
and BT, the people who own the damn network, why can't they give u/l if one of their wholesale isp's can!

Same reason that some charge £40 a month for 2Mbit and others £23, it's all down to pricing strategy and business plans. BT aren't unlimited simply because its' where they've placed themselves in the market.

3) NTL. why should a cable company cap? i can just about understand adsl (old lines, never designed for high peed conections, and diff. technology)
but if tw can be unlimited, why can't NTL?

ADSL is a simple but effective technology. Its' capping is nothing to do with the tech itself but with the charging systems that are utilised by BT and the ISPs pay. Most of them are now on Capacity Based Charging, so its' in their interests to populate the pipes with as many customers as possible.

Telewest did a huge upgrade cycle a while ago, they are now having to upgrade their network majorly for the first time in some time. They are currently behind with their Teleport VOD rollout and with the upgrade schedule for the 10Mbit uplift (which is why they are doing the previously unheard of and performing customer affecting work in the daytime).

Telewest have their share of congestion issues. If customers are prepared to tolerate this in return for an uncapped service then all good. Telewest and ntl simply aim for different sections of the market. Whose approach is best is entirely down to point of view.

4) and another random thing, i hate the way some isps say "with an 8b connection you can download 20 webpages in the time a 1mb connection can only do 10, or whatever.
To tell the truth, this website loads the same speed on 256k as it does on 10mb!!

Just a sales pitch, same as the advertising of the 'up to' speed. Cable is a different technology to DSL, with DSL the difference between 256k and 10Mbit on web browsing is very noticeable, cable due to its' bursty nature only makes the difference obvious on very bandwidth heavy pages.

5) and if LLU companies can offer 24mb bb, why can't BT?

BT are required by Ofcom to supply ATM backhaul from their exchanges. This legacy technology has some limitations. In addition to this they have enabled many exchanges which have as little as 34Mbit of bandwidth for the exchange. LLU operators have a pure IP backhaul of at least 100Mbit from every exchange.

It's not possible for me to migrate to any form of adsl, even though I live in the centre of london, as I'm on a DACS system, but if that changes and NTL introduce caps on tw's services, i might have to think about it. If i wasn't on dacs, i could be with UKonline, as they and bulldog (and bethere, soon) have enabled my exchange.
And they don't cap tv or phone, so why should they cap broadband?

Speak to BT and DACS can be removed. If the capacity is there to remove your DACS it will be removed as part of an order for DSL.

They don't cap TV because you don't share it with anyone, you all receive all channels at all times, and they don't cap phone because its' a pay as you go arrangement unless you are on one of the unlimited packages in which case it is capped by a 1 hour cutoff, and the various restrictions preventing you dialling non-geographic numbers.

Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by jrhnewark

I see one good reason for why the ISPs cap - and it's not just about their bandwidth capacity!

GB, TB = cash the ISPs have to pay out. Whatever goes through their network normally has to go through someone else's, too!

(I don't support capping, especially for this reason. There is always a way of offering an unlimited service, it's just making the price look attractive that's the problem.)

Yes there is, it's just a case of whether users are prepared to pay for the privilege, most aren't, or if they are prepared to accept the congestion issues that come from an unlimited cheap service and again most aren't.

To be perfectly honest I reckon that ntl are footing the bill for Telewest's network upgrades and TW would have gone bust if it weren't for ntl buying them. I don't think TW could afford what they are doing now without it, a few anonymous Telewest staff suggested this to me.

Just the same really as the investment banks footing the bill for their last upgrades, they know they are going to have to restructure so they spend out then go into bankruptcy protection.