[goblin]

Originally Posted by nffc

Don't think really either is a cause for complaint...

I suppose this depends upon your individual circumstances. If you work from home or are likely to be near the phone and are inclined to pick it up instinctivly when it rings. It could become a problem, especially when you find someone trying to sell you something.

Phones- you can register with TPS which is free, and as it says, you can opt out

There is a bit of a problem with the TPS, it only covers calls made FROM UK telephone lines. It does NOT cover calls from other countries. Which explains why most of the "cold calls" to numbers in the UK originate from outside of the UK, such places as Amsterdam and the USA where TPS regulation has no effect. Even though they have their own systems in effect, they don't accept complaints from outside their own countries boundaries. The effect of this is of course that once upon one of these lists, you are likely to be plagued by such calls.

(although, you should be able to opt-in and be out by default, I suppose)

This is how it should be. But it was decided that using it this was in the best interests of "business to explore other opportunities".

but, you don't have to get the calls, so I can't see a problem...

Here's the problem. With the existance of the TPS register, the value of peoples previously personal details has risen. Therefore advertisers and indeed businesses who wish to capitalise on such "untouched territory" ie: telephone numbers (Ex Directory) of people who have received little if any sales calls are worth more than those that have. NTL what with it being an "international", "Global" company will in all likelihood decide to sell your and my details to a company outside of the UK. So registering with the TPS\MPS\FPS will have little effect.

At the present time, NTL has a "business relationship" with their subscribers and as such can contact (us) them from time to time to further increase revenue. Unless we have specifically told them we are not interested. So technically, there is no reason to change the T&C's.

However, I imagine they are finding this a bit of a bind and as such by revising the T&C's they are looking for a way of overcoming this. This to me sugests that they are intending to supply our personal details to companies outside of the UK who shall be only too willing (for a suitable fee of course) to call target UK consumers in a bid to sell their wares.

This may not be a problem now, but it could become one. Especially when you consider that once the details are passed on, they will goto the highest bidder. Once they are out in the open, despite NTL's expected denials there is no way of controlling what an individual company will do with them and who they share them with and to who they shall pass them onto.

NTL will in all likelihood state at one point "No geographical information shall be passed onto such companies" sugesting that we don't have too much to worry about. Of course this protects them, as it means they have an additional list to "share" with various companies who are engaged in direct mail marketting.

What they will fail to tell you however, is that these telephone calls frequently are recorded and take the form of "Hello, this is James\Nora\Andy\Jane calling from NTL, is this Mr\Mrs xxxx, can you please confirm your address for me?" You reply confirming your address. Or not, if like myself you say "You are NTL, you tell me" they will reply with "Sorry Sir\Madam, we cannot do that as we are bound by the data protection act, we need you to clarrify who you are". The problem here is that it sounds like a call to report something is wrong with your account. When infact it is a sales call.

They will then move onto offering their "opportunity" to you. At which point you may decide to listen or advise them you are not interested. However, that company now has an "existing business relationship" with you, which entitles them to phone you again at a later date. Something which it is entitled to do under the guidelines of our very own Telephone Prefference Service. It may mean a "no" to NTL whilst they are under contract to call people advertising NTL's "additional services", but it also means another name on a list for the company making the call. That is another name that has previously not been called or has had limited exposure to sales calls and as such can be called again by them or whoever they sell their list too.

Of course may not be a problem for you personally, but for others it may be. Also worth a mention is your mobile phone - ever given it to NTL for contact purposes? If so, get ready for an influx of text messages, not to mention MMS messages which aren't governed by any body, even the TPS.

Also, worth a mention is the "automated calling systems", these things can be configured to not "hang up" (terminate) a call should the person receiving the call decide they don't wish to listen and just put the phone down. The result being that you go back sometime later to make a call, dial your required number, only to find that instead of talking to your favourite Aunty, your line is tied to the people you put the phone down on earlier. I have personal experience of this which unfortunately left me with an unusable phone for 24 hours whilst the auto dialer hung up. I phoned NTL about it and was told "sorry sir, there is nothing we can do - have you tried calling the number and asking them to hang up".

Do you see a "cause for complaint" yet?