Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paul M
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
Until people realise that this is not the case it seems pointless trying to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
|
So .... unless we agree with your view, discussion is pointless ? |
Oh ye GODS Paul M, will you *PLEASE* actually take the time and effort to *READ* what I am writing! This sort of thing is *precisely* what I am talking about!!
What I *actually* said was
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
once again, we see the implication in the phrase "treat Johnny nice" that somehow those who support human rights and dignity would let everybody out of jail or feather-bed them or make prison like a "holiday camp" etc etc.
Until people realise that this is not the case it seems pointless trying to have a sensible discussion on this topic.
|
I am objecting to people *misrepresenting* the viewpoint and beliefs of myself and others who support human rights by claiming that the above is what we would do.
You, however, have chosen to mis-read or mis-represent this as "if you don't agree with my POV there's no point in discussing it, which is *NOT* what I have said, nor would *ever* say!!
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
Same old story: someone claims that people who support the human rights don't give a damn about victims
|
Who claimed that then ?
|
You did: I quote your exact words...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paul M
[...]the human rights brigade object - we can't degrade the criminals (shame about the victims).
|
Now if you your comment "we can't degrade the criminals (shame about the victims)" does not imply that those who support human rights only care about the rights of the criminals and not the victims, please tell me what it *does* mean, because I can't see another way of interpreting it.
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
someone asserts that punishing criminals is the only way to make society a better/ safer/ more civilised place (why hasn't it worked so far, then?)
|
Someone else asserts that not punishing criminals is the only way to make society a better/ safer/ more civilised place - that's working well isn't it 
|
Now you're getting desperate and, once again, you set up a straw man argument that is nothing to do with what *I* have said.
As I have said in previous threads, I am in favour of *rehabilitating* the criminals, not simply making them suffer. One has a much better chance of making society a better place, the other is more likely to make "better" criminals.
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
the "string them up" brigade just want to make people suffer even more (like that's going to make the world a better place)
|
The "do gooder" brigade just want to slap them on the wrist and say 'please don't do it again' - Like that's going to make the world a better place.
|
Whoops, there goes another straw man...!
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Graham
straw men are set up and knocked down (like that's going to help a reasoned debate...) |
Um, okay.
|
See above.
__________________
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Incognitas
I actually do dislike the way that those of us who strongly believe in rights for EVERYONE get stigmatised on this site as being for criminals and against victims. [...]
I'm actually against having human rights for all and then not applying them to whatever group the media currently have an issue with.  What is the point in having any form of human rights under those circumstances? |
Damn right!
It is regrettable that we still see people who seem to think that "rights" should only apply to those whom *they* like/ approve of/ think are "nice people", but anyone else who is "****" doesn't deserve the same rights.
There are plenty of warnings from history of what happens when one group starts treating another as "not human"...