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Originally Posted by me283
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Originally Posted by Graham
You have *still* yet to demonstrate *ANY* proof of this claim!
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How can it be proven, when it has not happened? |
You can't, but the point is you want to spend at least five *BILLION* pounds on trying to prove it!
And what happens if, after all that (as seems much more likely) it turns out that it doesn't work and would never be able to do half the things that were promised for it, what would you say?
"Oh, sorry, we've wasted enough money to build a load of new hospitals and police stations and employ a whole lot of more doctors, nurses and police, but, hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time!)
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Just like back in the late 1400s when a chap called Columbus decided to sail around the world, even though people thought it was square... how did he "prove" it wasn't? By getting out there and doing it.
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If you're trying to use this as an argument in favour of your position, it would have worked better if you'd actually got your facts right! But there again, it seems that facts don't feature much in your arguments anyway.
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And you want proof that something "will" be beneficial before it's been introduced? Tough one that. No, what you want is not proof, but you want to be convinced, and it seems to me that your stance is such that you are unconvincable.
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Just because I won't take what you (or the government) says without something more to back it up, does *not* mean I am "unconvincable", but if you're going to spend all that money, it's better to do it with reasonable grounds to back it up instead of just "well I think it's a good idea, let's try it and see what happens".
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
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Originally Posted by Graham
Just *LOOK* at the list of information that the government wants to keep on everyone and think what could be done by someone who is unscrupulous!
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Again I ask, how come other countries with ID card systems with more personal information than the government's plan calls for, don't have this issue? |
Which countries? The former Soviet Union? The old Eastern Europe? Communist China?
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Also exactly what new information will the database hold that will enable all these abuses which isn't already held by the government?
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Have you never heard the expression "don't put all of your eggs in one basket"?
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Another thing, you do not need to carry the ID card to be able to walk down the street, just as you don't need to carry a driving license to drive down the road.
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Oh gods, Xaccers, this argument is *OLD* is has been done time and again in these threads and I'm not going to point out the flaws in it *yet* again.
Go and search the old threads where you will find the difference between having a licence to drive (something you *choose* to have) and having a "licence to walk down the street" (something which the government wants to *compel* you to have).
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With this thread nearly everyone has agreed that the government's proposal and ability to impliment the scheme are a pile of poo.
So there's no point carrying on arguing about it.
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I suggest you try to convince Me283 of that!
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Then you are left with those of us who can see the benifits of a well planned and implimented scheme and those who are anti any ID scheme.
So far from the latter I have only heard reasonable arguments against the Labour plan but no strong arguments against properly run schemes.
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Xaccers, the point is that *ANY* scheme introduced *will* be a government scheme and it will *NOT* be a "well planned and implemented scheme". Ye gods, they can't even get the MI5 system right and that's supposed to protect us from terrorism!!!