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Originally Posted by Gogogo
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Blair and New Labour have only succeeded because they stole huge chunks of Tory ideas and repackaged them a bit more to the left (but still right of centre) whilst ditching practically everything to do with what their party had stood for. The Tories lost out because by the end of the Thatcher years they'd gone so far to the right that they'd alienated most of the country.
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I have already commented on this earlier but for your sake here we ago again;
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And others have pointed out that there are at least an equal number of policies that Labour have introduced that *are* effectively identical to Tory ones.
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Where on earth you have got the idea that Labour "out Tories the Tories" one can't imagine, it's just nonsense, the evidence is quite the reverse. Even now the Tory's plot to cut billions from public services has been made public.
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You can prove anything by selectively picking the evidence.
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New Labour has achieved the centre ground and there is no room for old fashioned dogma, [...] I reject accusations of Labour as a right wing party, there is no evidence for that at all.
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If your party was left wing and now it "has achieved the centre ground" there is only *one* direction it can have moved in!!
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And 40% of the voters not turning out for the last one is *also* a staggering achievement, but not one that they want to brag about!!
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Statistics vary, some constituencies held up their poll others fell.
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However very few, if any *rose*. Therefore overall it's a drop.
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Looking at the statistics in general the voting electorate has fallen,
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But why? IMO it's because (to quote Rory Bremner) if you have two parties who regularly call the others liars, people are going to believe *both* of them!
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hopefully the next general election will see a better turnout.
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Hopefully it will, but I really don't think so.
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"Renewed"? Totally changed, I think you mean!
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Semantics: renewed = changed. The Labour Party has to adapt policies according to changing situations if it remains stuck in old dogmas it would be unelectable.
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If they move away their core beliefs to make themselves electable and just go for what's popular (or populist) what is the difference between that and what they are accusing the Tories of doing?!
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The only problem is that the Lib Dems are still not really credible as a political force and they need to get some strong leadership and clearer policies before people will vote for them in a big way.
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Yes, they do have a rather inept and babbling leader, probably Vincent Cable would be a problem for Labour, I'm sure the knives will be out following Liberal defeat in the general election.
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Whilst I don't think Charles Kennedy is a great leader, I also don't think that the Lib Dems will be "defeated" in the election. I wouldn't be surprised if they pick up a lot of disaffected Tory and Labour voters.
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Regrettably it looks more inevitable than just "possible" but I predict that the next election is going to have the lowest turnout *ever* for a General Election.
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Nothing in politics is inevitable, there is a real prospect of a Tory victory as they begin to scrape popular prejudices for their programme they hit the lowest common denominator anything to get votes.
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Let's see: the Tories "scrape popular prejudices for their programme they hit the lowest common denominator anything to get votes." but "The Labour Party has to adapt policies according to changing situations".
Do I detect the slightest trace of personal political bias here?!
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"Renewed confidence"? Not in politicians he hasn't! The behaviour of the Government before and during the Iraq war was utterly shameful and all the spin and calls that "we must move on" aren't convincing anybody.
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It's a matter of opinion, the war is over, it's out of date now, we should move on and let the Iraq people resolve their issues as they are doing and the terrorists can now be seen as enemies of the people.
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Oh, my mistake, it wasn't a *slight* trace of personal political bias, it's more like a case of "my party right or wrong"!
The phrases "it's out of date now" and "we should move on" could have come directly from Tony's hymn book.
The war is by *no* means over, people are still dying in Iraq *every day*. The possible lies or fabrications that were told to get us into the war and the truth behind factors such as the Attorney General's changing advice are not something that we can just "move on" from, to try to dismiss them as unimportant is to ignore the good of the country for the sake of party politics.
As for "the terrorists can now be seen as enemies of the people" yes, that's a convenient expression, isn't it? We keep being told of the "terrorist threat" but there seems precious little evidence of what the threat actually *IS*.
As has been discussed in other threads (repeatedly, so let's not get into those again, but the points need to be made) how many people have actually been *convicted* of terrorist acts or even planning such acts? We read stories that there are "up to 200" suspected Al Qaeda terrorists, but if so, why haven't they *done* anything? etc etc
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt are wonderful political tools.
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As for "worked for progress", the NHS is in a mess, schools are in a mess, University tuition fees are in a mess, the attempts to foist ID cards are in a mess, asylum and immigration are in a mess, Blair and his bunch have bodged up too many things and if they get in for a third time they're going to end up being viewed in the same light as the Tories in the '80s.
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I think the NHS is generally doing fine there will always be issues and problems but I think you are underestimating the hard work the the staff and employees of the NHS do.
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I don't underestimate their work, but I think it would be better if they were left to *get on* with that work instead of having to faff around with "targets" that seem to be more designed to make the government look good than to actually treat patients.
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As a teacher in FE and a school governor I can't say I've noticed education in a mess! What's a mess? Everything seems to tick over nicely
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Sorry, are you *really* saying that basic standards of literacy and numeracy have *not* fallen??
"1 in 5 independent schools fails to meet basic standards
"Many of Britain's independent schools are among the worst in the country, according to the Office for Standards in Education. Figures collected by Ofsted show that up to one in five of independent schools fails to meet basic standards.
"Those giving inspectors cause for concern are the 1,120 independent schools in the country that do not belong to the Independent Schools Council, the body that represents top public schools such as Eton and Harrow, which requires its members to meet specified educational standards before they become members.
"(Independent, 29 April 2003)"
"Ofsted's first overview of LEAs not good news
"The Office for Standards in Education first ever overview of the performance of local education authorities, published in September 2002, is not good news for town halls. Even ignoring the fact that more LEAs (41) were classified as being unsatisfactory or poor than good or very good (29), the starkest fact to emerge from the report is that even well-run authorities are failing to deliver tangible improvement in school standards.
"(Independent, 19 September 2002)"
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I would agree though there is a need for modernisation, new qualifications, new institutions with new ideas and old ways need to revised.
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I think this is another area where the government needs to leave well alone and let those who actually *do* the work get on with their jobs instead of having to meet targets.
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I don't deny there are problems these are more likely to be sorted under Labour.
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Once again it seems "my party right or wrong".
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Well as for asylum, immigration as I say I don't support everything I think the government should try to be more cautious over these issues.
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That's something, at least.
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As for ID cards, oh dear, not again, seems things are on the shelf at the moment and one doesn't know what the new government's priorities will be.
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I think the only reason those ID card plans are on the shelf is that Labour doesn't want to see them brought up as an election issue because they know that when people find out the truth of what's involved, they're going to change their minds drastically about the value of them.
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"Remarkable, yes, but not, I think, for the reasons you suggest!" true, but is that really a *good* thing in a leader? We've seen him time and again ignore public (and his own party's) opinion and plough on regardless because "Tony knows best". Well, I'm sorry, but I don't think he does and a little humility (real, not simulated) and a little less spin and a bit more listening and paying attention would be a good thing."
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Yes, well it is a matter of opinion but I think History will judge him kindly.
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My indendent political opinion on that differs somewhat.