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Originally Posted by Graham
Sorry, but I really don't think either of the latter two *would* have been good in the job. They were nowhere near as impressive as Smith when he was speaking from the Dispatch Box and Blair is nowhere as good as him either.
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Unfortunately, I was at the time living elsewhere overseas and I can't really comment on John Smith's s skills, so I'll take your word for it.
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Blair and New Labour have only succeeded because they stole huge chunks of Tory ideas and repackaged them a bit more to the left (but still right of centre) whilst ditching practically everything to do with what their party had stood for. The Tories lost out because by the end of the Thatcher years they'd gone so far to the right that they'd alienated most of the country.
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I have already commented on this earlier but for your sake here we ago again;
Here is a sample list:
Assemblies for Scotland and Wales - Not Tory policy
a Greater London Assembly - Not Tory policy
Massive cash injections and more on the way into health, education and policiing - Not tory policy
a national minimum wage - Not tory policy
schemes to get the unemployed and unemployable back into work,unemployment is down - Not Tory policy
Where on earth you have got the idea that Labour "out Tories the Tories" one can't imagine, it's just nonsense, the evidence is quite the reverse. Even now the Tory's plot to cut billions from public services has been made public.
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Ok, I didn't *agree* with what Old Labour stood for, but becoming another Tory party wasn't the best thing for the country and risks us ending up like the USA where you can either vote for the Right Wing party or the *really* Right Wing party!
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New Labour has achieved the centre ground and there is no room for old fashioned dogma, New Labour in revising the old clause four, the rejection of dogma this was the right thing to do, there is no room in the Labour Party for the dinosaurs of the militancy tendency and other screaming Trotskyites. I reject accusations of Labour as a right wing party, there is no evidence for that at all.
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And 40% of the voters not turning out for the last one is *also* a staggering achievement, but not one that they want to brag about!!
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Statistics vary, some constituencies held up their poll others fell. Looking at the statistics in general the voting electorate has fallen, everyone who believes in democracy should encourage people to use their vote, hopefully the next general election will see a better turnout.
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"Renewed"? Totally changed, I think you mean!
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Semantics: renewed = changed. The Labour Party has to adapt policies according to changing situations if it remains stuck in old dogmas it would be unelectable.
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Not really, because a lot of that "success" is due to people not wanting to vote the Tories back in again after the disaster that the Thatcher years turned out to be (and Major was just a joke).
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Well it does happen and my campaigning experience is sufficient that sometimes people vote or don't vote for all sorts of reasons, sometimes bizaare! That the Labour Party had the sufficient strength and experience to form an alternative government, don't underestimate that there are in fact millions and millions of Labour voters.
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Unfortunately picking Michael Howard (architect of the Poll Tax!) as their leader is a serious mistake because a lot of people *do* remember him as being associated with the '80s and they don't want that back again.
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Actually, I do have a lot of respect for Michael Howard, he is an able political leader, he's too nice a guy to lead the Conservatives.
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The only problem is that the Lib Dems are still not really credible as a political force and they need to get some strong leadership and clearer policies before people will vote for them in a big way.
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Yes, they do have a rather inept and babbling leader, probably Vincent Cable would be a problem for Labour, I'm sure the knives will be out following Liberal defeat in the general election.
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Regrettably it looks more inevitable than just "possible" but I predict that the next election is going to have the lowest turnout *ever* for a General Election.
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Nothing in politics is inevitable, there is a real prospect of a Tory victory as they begin to scrape popular prejudices for their programme they hit the lowest common denominator anything to get votes.
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"Renewed confidence"? Not in politicians he hasn't! The behaviour of the Government before and during the Iraq war was utterly shameful and all the spin and calls that "we must move on" aren't convincing anybody.
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It's a matter of opinion, the war is over, it's out of date now, we should move on and let the Iraq people resolve their issues as they are doing and the terrorists can now be seen as enemies of the people.
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As for "worked for progress", the NHS is in a mess, schools are in a mess, University tuition fees are in a mess, the attempts to foist ID cards are in a mess, asylum and immigration are in a mess, Blair and his bunch have bodged up too many things and if they get in for a third time they're going to end up being viewed in the same light as the Tories in the '80s.
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I think the NHS is generally doing fine there will always be issues and problems but I think you are underestimating the hard work the the staff and employees of the NHS do. As a teacher in FE and a school governor I can't say I've noticed education in a mess! What's a mess? Everything seems to tick over nicely, staff and students work hard at most schools & colleges. I would agree though there is a need for modernisation, new qualifications, new institutions with new ideas and old ways need to revised.
I don't deny there are problems these are more likely to be sorted under Labour.
Well as for asylum, immigration as I say I don't support everything I think the government should try to be more cautious over these issues. As for ID cards, oh dear, not again, seems things are on the shelf at the moment and one doesn't know what the new government's priorities will be.
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"Yes, because frankly they picked a bunch of total incompetants! It's not difficult to win against weak opposition."
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William Hague is a tough nut I wouldn't describe him as incompetant! Fact is the Conservatives themselves have been openly split and divided as it seems they still are!
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"Remarkable, yes, but not, I think, for the reasons you suggest!"
true, but is that really a *good* thing in a leader? We've seen him time and again ignore public (and his own party's) opinion and plough on regardless because "Tony knows best". Well, I'm sorry, but I don't think he does and a little humility (real, not simulated) and a little less spin and a bit more listening and paying attention would be a good thing."
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Yes, well it is a matter of opinion but I think History will judge him kindly.
G_d this took ages, I really must shut down and enjoy the sun with the family!