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Originally Posted by timewarrior2001
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Originally Posted by Graham
I thought it was that people were using the fact that someone being Islamic is seemingly enough to suspect them of being a potential terrorist...
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Would you honestly and truthfully be saying that if a person with ginger hair a kilt and claymore was stopped because he looked scottish?
Or a man walking down street with leeks and clogs being stopped because he looked Welsh? |
What on Earth are you on about? I don't see many people walking down the street dressed like that, do you? However I *do* see people dressed in "Islamic" clothing, yet, somehow, I don't automatically think "maybe they're a terrorist someone should question or search them!"
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Graham, I do accpet our views are extremely different in these cases (but not always ALL the time). But I do sense that a lot of what shapes your views does come down to their race. For example, I am under the distinct impression that because they are black and muslim, you will jump to their defence, no matter what.
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Then you would be utterly *UTTERLY*
wrong and I would have to say that you have
completely failed to understand a word I have been saying.
I don't give a *damn* about race. Nor colour, nor creed, nor clothing, nor which football team they support.
What I *DO* care about is *PREJUDICE*, those who *would* judge someone based on any or all of the above or any other subjective criteria and *RIGHTS*, because if we take rights away from just *one* group, we are on a very dangerous path as history has demonstrated time and time again.
If someone said "we should arrest anyone who calls themselves 'timewarrior2001' because it's a silly name" I would be standing up for *your* rights just as much as I would stand up for *anyone's* rights, no matter what.
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Whilst I often fail to see the side you obviously do, I do think that you fail to see what any repercussions could be should we ignore the fact.
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On the contrary, I am well aware of what people claim the repercussions could be (letting terrorists in, letting them commit atrocities etc) but it seems that those self-same people "fail to see the side I obviously do" because they cannot see the dangers present in presuming that *one* particular group is less deserving of rights than everyone else.
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There is a growing problem, yes the problem is fundementally an islamic one. But the islamic groups need to realise that whilst they cover for the behaviour of their kind, in the name of their religion, its inevitable that they are all, at some point, going to be regarded with suspicion. And whilst that happens, the powers of stop and search will be used.
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And, once again, you make incorrect assumptions and sweeping generalisations that will only make the problem *WORSE*.
Yes, there are *SOME* Muslims who will "cover for the behaviour of their kind" (hmm, "their kind", another great generalisation!), just as some blacks will support their "brothers" against the White Man and so on, but there are also many who deplore the atrocities committed in the name of their religion and who will do everything they can to see them brought to justice.
However there is also a *third* group, the "undecideds" for want of a better term who think "well, I shouldn't cover for these people, but if I'm going to get hassled by ignorant unbelievers who want to give me grief simply because I worship in a Mosque or wear certain clothes or look a particular way or have a beard, why the hell should I be bothered to help them?"
Now the question becomes "what do *we* do"? Do we develop policies to get them on *our* side? Or do we, instead, treat them as suspects which is more likely to drive them to the "other" side?
I know which I think is more sensible.
What about you?
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
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Originally Posted by Graham
And you don't grass your mates up to the Police, teacher, whoever, no matter whether you're black, white, asian or anything else.
Don't try to imply that this is *exclusive* to Muslims.
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Excuse me but when did I imply such a thing? |
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
If an asian has broken the law there is likely to be a wall of silence while the suspect is rushed out of the country.
It happens a lot in rape/murder cases.
Several of the Muslims I work with have commented that the intelligence services will find it hard to recruit Muslims in the war against terror because it is seen as betraying your brother to turn them in.
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This sort of behaviour happens in *many* groups as I said above, not just in asian/ Muslim communities as you mention.
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Originally Posted by Xaccers
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Originally Posted by Graham
You're looking at a *Jewish* site for opinions about Muslims?
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Ah so because it's a jewish site it must be biased and full of lies with no truths at all? |
Did I say that? No, I didn't. You're complaining I'm implying things into your messages that you didn't say, yet then you go and do exactly the same thing!
The point is that there is little love lost between many sections of the Jewish and Islamic communities. Picking a single example like that doesn't necessarily provide proof by any means.
ADDENDUM: PS thanks for the red rep based on your straw man argument!
