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Originally Posted by Ramrod
It has been pointed out today that muslims may experience more stop and search and more counter terrorist activities in order to try to stop loss of life in this country from terrorist activities. Some sections of the muslim community (and our own liberal contingent) are up in arms about this. If we back down from such counter terror activities then we are appeasing those sections of our society. Seems straightforward enough to me  |
I suggest you look at the history of the Appeasement of the Nazis before you make any more comments like this.
Appeasement resulted in Hitler, Chamberlain, Daladier of France and Mussolini signing the Munich Agreement carving up Czechoslovakia and giving Germany the Sudetenland. When the Czech leadership quite rightly complained, Chamberlain simply told them that Britain wouldn't go to war over this.
In fact this is exactly counter to your argument above because just as the right of the Czechs in the Sudetenland to determine what happened to them were ridden roughshod over, so some seem to want to ride roughshod of the rights of *all* Muslims based on the actions of a minority!
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My argument against appeasement is that sometimes giving in like that can lead to an increased confidence in those who would do us harm (as it did in the 1930's) and spur them on and indeed allow them a freer reign in their activities.
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And violating their rights can lead to more of them being driven into the waiting arms of the extremists who are looking for willing converts who are disaffected by the way their rights are being treated as irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by me283
And as I pointed out, the 70s were about 30 years ago.
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Why not move on from what was reported in the 70s and look at what's happening now.
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it
- George Santayana
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Originally Posted by me283
But do you think that any spot checks on Muslims would be viewed as racist if thay are carried out by Asian (possibly Muslim) officers?
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If you are targetting any particular group based simply on what they look like or what religion they profess, that is discriminatory, no matter *who* is doing it.
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Originally Posted by me283
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Originally Posted by Graham
Shooting anyone who's a potential terrorist would also stop attacks.
Do you think *that* is worth a try too...???
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Hmmm... I'm no expert, but...
People being stopped, questioned, searched, whatever, tend to be able to carry on afterwards as if nothing has happened. Shooting people tends to suggest that might be less likely. Innocent people can walk away, having been questioned; shot innocent people can't. |
Have you never heard of "Pour encourager les autres"?
Or how about "Shoot them all, let God sort them out"?
It's got to be worth a try...
[NB Just in case anyone's not sure what I'm saying here, please read the above with a strong sense of cynicism!]
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Originally Posted by Ramrod
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Originally Posted by Graham
They also ignored the Nazi's discriminatory treatment of the Jews, look where *that* got us...!!
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Yes that was terrible, but that did occur as a result of the original appeasement. |
No, it occurred because "it's not our problem".
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Shooting anyone who's a potential terrorist would also stop attacks.
Do you think *that* is worth a try too...???
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Who mentioned shooting them? That is a rather large escalation to try to prove a point
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It's an extrapolation. At what point does something *cease* to be "worth a try"? Shooting them? Violating their Civil Rights? Where do you draw the line?
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Well, she is, according to what you say, "a Muslim", and, also according to what you say "probably knows what she is talking about re muslim attitudes in the UK", so I'd be interested to know what an ordinary Muslim would *do* in a situation like that...!
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As she said, they might not/would not want to say anything as it's betraying a felow muslim to the infidel. As for what she would do, I would like to think she would speak up, but I don't know for sure.
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Fine, so don't betray them to the "infidel", tell their Imam instead and get them to sort them out.
But they wouldn't *do nothing* which is what some seem to suggest.