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Originally Posted by punky
If someone reported a rape by a large man, dark hair, long beard, blue jeans and white t-shirt, and I happened to be walking in the area at the time, not long after, i'd understand why I was questioned. I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't bleat that it was against my civil rights, that I was prejudiced, etc.
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And neither would I.
But if it was "a white man" would you consider it acceptable (or sensible) to stop *all* white men and question them?
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Originally Posted by Graham
Of course if you've ******ed off the members of that community by treating them *all* as potential terrorists, some who may have come forward might, instead say "to hell with them".
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So if we agree that inside informants (Like Ramrod said) is extremely unlikely,
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Whoops! Nice try, but, no, actually I *don't* agree with that!
What I do agree, however, is that we are likely to get *less* informants if we treat them *all* as suspects!
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we have to rely on intelligence. Is that the same intelligence you claim is gathered against our civil rights?
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I don't know. Which intelligence are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by me283
Foolish is a tad strong methinks. But it does come across that you are sat somewhere in your ivory tower believing the world is a lovely place full of wonderful people. As for terrorism, it will never happen to you.
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If it comes across as that, I suggest you re-read my posts and try to comprehend what I'm actually talking about.
I do not deny the reality of terrorism, nor that there are people who will commit such acts.
However neither will I accept that the *ONLY* way to deal with it is to throw away the precious rights we have fought so hard for in the past because that will give a *VICTORY* to the terrorists as we dance to their tune!
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Fine, but don't whinge when you are affected by something that COULD have been prevented, but wasn't, all because the civil rights brigade thought the measures were "infringing civil liberties".
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Do you *really* think I am so shallow or self-centred that I would change my tune completely just because something affects *me* and not someone else?
But neither am I so naiive as to think that rights are merely conveniences, not necessities to a civilised and democratic society.
[qutoe]The world is full of people who harm or wish to harm others, often indiscriminately. They show no compassion, and no respect for anyone's "rights".[/quote]
So to *defeat* them, we must *become* them by using *their* methods
That is *NOT* the sort of society I want to live in!!
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Fire needs to be fought with fire, and if that inconveniences a minority as opposed to allowing a minority to be killed, it seems a pretty simple choice to me.
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Fighting fire with fire leaves nothing but ashes - Gandhi.
And it's all very well to talk about "inconveniencing a minority" when *YOU* are not *part* of that minority...
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Originally Posted by me283
By the way, what would you think if a spot check caught a terrorist with a bomb? Would you still think his civil rights had been violated, as long as he hadn't detonated it (yet)?
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The problem is, you are asking the wrong question here.
What you should be asking is "how many people's rights do you think it is acceptable to violate in the *hope* of catching one bomber?"
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Originally Posted by Pierre
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Originally Posted by Graham
ANSWER: It's *not* because they thing they're innocent...!!  |
It's not because they think they're guilty either. |
No, it's because they
look like MUSLIMS!!!
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It's perfectly possible to asked a few routine questions as a matter of security.
I used to go to nightclubs (a few years ago now) and I was searched before I was let in.
Not because they thought I was a drug dealer, or had a weapon. Just a routine security check. Thats all
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True, but that is the wrong point.
The search was a condition of your entry to that establishment. If you objected to the search, you could choose not to go in there.
If you object to the Police searching you because you look like you follow a particular religion, they arrest you.
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Originally Posted by Paul M
Ithe fact that you post huge posts spouting off with lots of *shouting* does not make your views right and everyone elses wrong.
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Fine, if you think I'm wrong *please* counter my arguments, but simply making ad hominem attacks doesn't help the debate.
Except that, as I note...
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to answer your neg rep comment, I don't want a reasonable debate (or an unreasonable one) I'm not interested in a debate at all - I agree with the home office, end of story.
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If you don't want a debate, don't complain about those who do.