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Originally Posted by punky
Why is everything so charicaturial to you? If you complain about tax, then you must be an evil child-eating conservative. You probably think I have a pin-striped suit, bowler hat and a tightly rolled umbrella.
Everyone complains about tax, because for obvious reasons noone wants to pay 1p more than they have to. However public services have to be paid for, so people accept it. That doesn't mean the government can go power-crazed and pilled their citizens.
I have proved that most poor people will be worse off under Lib Dems ditch council tax plan. You seem to have agreed, but you are still arguing thats a good thing? First you say the poor should pay the least, then you say that everyone should pay as much as possible.
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A bloke called Punky in a pin stripe? It's a nice image I'll admit
My comment was, admittedly, based on anecdotal rather than scientific evidence but as I've had a few Guinesses I'm sticking with it!
The 1p more comment is important though because it does - I think! - illustrate that we get hung up on basic income tax rates instead of the total tax take and the equality of the tax regime. I don't want to pay more tax than I need but equally I want a fair and just society which offers equality to all (hey, we all can dream).
I'm not sure at all that you have proved poor people will be worse off. You may have proved that four people with incomes sharing a house will be worse off but that's a decidely different issue.
Ok, getting to the roots. If your mate has no money this weekend, do you buy him a beer?No, because if he can't afford a beer so tough doo-dah or yes, cos that's the decent thing to do. Extrapolate that out........
Yeah, yeah, might be time for another drink
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[QUOTE=punky]
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Originally Posted by punky
:Fairer? Maybe not in all cases, but if poor people will pay less tax, then that is better on them, and surely that is what the government should be doing?
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We're at cross purposes here in that we both seem to think poorer people should pay less tax (and talking as a proportion rather than pounds. shillings and pence). As far as I can judge people on the, lowest incomes, the most vulnerable, will be better off. If stands to reason ifd the the tax regime is hierarchical.
Final point before I depart for the evening. We are a rich country. As a nation (not me and thee necessarily) we can afford to pay more tax. Clamp down on tax avoidance that's what I say (said it mant times before but avoidance csts circa £25 billion annually which is an awful lot of council tax!).
Cheers all. Will check in too see if this debate is just as lively tomorrow!
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Originally Posted by Paul M
and who says they use the library ? or that they have kids ? They already pay for the roads with extortionate road tax, fuel tax (and speeding tax ) - and as for policing - that's a joke (for another thread) these days.  |
So we only pay for what we personally use/do? Not sure that argument holds a lot of aqueous substance. I might not make as much rubbish as you (obviously a very keen recycler! :o ) but that doesn't mean I should pay less for it to be collected. We all make burdens on the tax system, some more than others but that''s why we're a society and not 60m individuals (motivated puely by self interest).