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Originally Posted by Russ D
I think "Northern Irish" meant those from Northern Ireland.
Ahh yes, the car flags which the authorites considered 'dangerous' - yep, daft idea indeed but certainly nothing to do with the flags being English, it was because some beaurocrat decided they were potentially 'hazardous' to other road users... 
I understand that for many English people (present company excepted of course!) there is a huge catering pack of McCain's oven chips on their shoulders over their nationality, as if there is an underground campaign to allow "the taffs, paddies and scots" to celebrate their nations whilst stiffling England from doing the same.
Not so.
We don't get St David celebrated in any noteworthy way, I'm sure it's the same for Sts Andrew and Patrick. We don't get days off for them either.
The media is controlled by England (and to some extent Scotland). How many Welsh and N Ireland presenters do you know of?
We have nothing against the English being proud to be English - all the power to you for doing so, we should be free in our patriotic celebrations. However when you refer to England as Britain and vice versa and subsequently think nothing of it, then it creates friction. There are very clear differences between the two, so why is it done? Ignorance (towards the other home nations) or forgetfulness? |
Russ my mate, you're not going to win the presenters row ... so let's divert back to the topic, which is flags, seeing as you mentioned them
The reason why the Union Flag is waved by England fans is that for most of the last 300 years, and especially in the 19th century, the Union was pushed as our national identity over and above England, and England is the single largest part of the Union, England's capital is the capital of the Union, and the Parliament and Monarch of the United Kingdom are situated in our capital. Thus, we didn't feel nearly so culturally threatened as either Wales or Scotland and saw no need to cultivate our uniqueness in the same way that you did. Even today, Government buildings in England by law fly the Union flag on St George's Day. If they choose to fly St George's Cross, they have to fly it in addition and not instead of. In Scotland, St Andrew's Cross is flown on St Andrew's Day, instead of the Union flag, although in Wales you prefer that somewhat artificial banner with the dragon on it instead of your saint's cross, which is arguably the 'true' national flag of Wales (see attachment for an image of the St David Cross), and fly that on St David's Day instead of the Union flag.
So, it's not surprising that until very recently a lot of English people had difficulty separating the concepts of England and the United Kingdom. However, all that has begun to change. Euro 96 was when I first remember noticing a large number of English flags at an England game. More recently, devolution in Wales and Scotland has caused English people to consider what their own identity might be. I wouldn't go so far as to say we have a big bag of McCain's on our shoulders over it - I don't hear of any big campaign for English devolution. When you hear English people complaining about flags, it's usually with reference to this topic, that it is forbidden for fear of offending ethnic minorities, rather than Welsh or Scottish people. Although I know from experience that waving an England flag on a Welsh street after a 6-nations game can be a dangerous thing. Or actually, simply
being English on a Welsh street ...
