[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Stephen

He wasn't 'ready to use it' though. Also the agent took the gun away before the first shot was fired and then a further 9 shots. There was no danger of harm from Pretti at all.

He was legally carrying it as per the local rules. Pretty did nothing wrong. His only action was to try and help that woman up and instead was pepper spray, pinned to the ground and hit in the head with the pepper spray cannister, before being executed. How you can try to defend ICEs actions is beyond me.

It wasn't carried in a bag or something. It is an established term for the mode of carrying a gun. Variations include Small of Back carry(seems more applicable in this case), Appendix carry.
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No, that is not particularly safe. It is, however, a good place to conceal a handgun. When one considers human physiology, there is a “low" spot in the middle of the back, just above the buttocks. Most jackets are tailored to hang straight from the shoulder area, thus making a space between the jacket and the small of the back which just happens to be ideally sized to conceal a handgun. As a bonus, the weapon in this position is easily reached if the situation requires that.

Because of the real world and reaction times, you have to step BACK in time. The start of events occurs BEFORE the time of the first shot. Takes over a quarter of a second just for the reaction starting from seeing something. Then there is the time it takes to reach for the gun, remove from holster, raise arm, pull trigger. All a trained response.

Difficult to see exactly, but that would make the reaction to shoot and fire occurring BEFORE the other agent went for Pretti's gun.
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On the other hand, if the person moves in any fashion that implies intent to harm or resist, most officers would fire their weapons until the offender is no longer moving to resist.

Bear in mind the officer was very close at the time, so options were limited.


He DID NOT go to help the woman before being pepper sprayed. He approached the agent, was pepper sprayed, spun around and was pepper sprayed again. All in the video.
Wasn't pinned to the ground. At the point of the first shot, he was half-kneeling. Again, all in the video.
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What we know:
Claire Louise Feng, 27, of St. Paul, is charged with assaulting a U.S. Border Patrol agent.
Emily Duchateau Baierl, 37, was also charged with assault.
According to charges, around 9:25 a.m., Feng allegedly tackled a border patrol agent who was attempting to arrest another woman. At that point, a second agent attempted to pull Feng away, and took her to the ground – at which point she "forcibly bit the right ring finger of [the second agent]." The injury left the agent with a tip of his finger bitten off, charges allege.
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He was aggressive, combative, resisting, and carrying a gun. In that situation, who knows what somebody's intentions were.
A TRAINED RESPONSE from law enforcement, known as "see gun, shoot gun".

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Do UK immigration enforcement shoot and kill UK citizens? I don't think so!

We're talking about US enforcement officers.
Armed UK police officers have shot and killed people, when somebody has made a suspicious movement and they are thought to be carrying a gun. Even when it turns out just to have been a chair leg.