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Originally Posted by jfman
And how many Ukrainian conscripts should die while the West ponders how to make Russia understand this (if indeed, it’s even achievable at all). One million? Two? Three?
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Well if we back them properly we can hopefully reduce the death toll but if Ukraine wants to keep fighting then we supply them the means to do so. If Ukraine wants to stop fighting then we of course back them.
I am not interested in discussions that treat Ukrainians as if they don't have any agency. We're in a conflict where they do have that agency and any solution has to involve their interests as well.
---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I didn't say we should withdrawal aid anywhere, I said we should pressure Ukraine to talk.
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Well behind the scenes there might be discussions about what is realistically possible with the understanding that publically the West will not waver in its commitment.
The other thing is we have no reason to believe Putin won't make further attempts even after a peace agreement is signed. What reason do we have to trust that someone who invaded a country won't do so again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
There is no indication that Ukraine has the manpower to push Russia back from all its territory. Russia doesn't have to advance, she can just stay and hold what she has got, what's Ukraine going to do about it?
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The priority would be to enable Ukraine to stop any further advancement or great loss of life. Give them the defensive capacity to withstand Russian attacks. Ukraine has proven pretty good at attacking behind Russian lines and continuing to damage them even if they could not push them back.
Getting to that situation at least means Russia has something to think about.
At that point, I wonder if we enter a frozen conflict where the attacks essentially stop but no diplomatic recognition of it being over might happen.