[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by roughbeast

Which version of Sephiroth am I replying to today? Is this the version who appears to be aware of nuance in a non-binary world, where absolute extreme positions are hard to maintain or is this the version of Sephiroth who declares that 300,000 peace marchers are all Hamas supporters and believes that Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, is incompatible with our society?

1. A minority of refugees from countries such as China, Afghanistan and Iran flee via Russia. Some of those have been weaponised by Russia, compromising the borders of neighbouring states like Poland and Finland. The vast majority enter Europe via the Mediterranean and Turkey of their own volition with no direction from Wagner or anybody else, but exploited by traffickers. Sunak is looking for excuses for his shambolic and inhumane immigration and asylum policies and is looking for enemies of the state to unify us all against.

2. Islam does do multiculturalism. As I previously pointed out, when Islam was at it's height in terms of geographical spread, there were more Christian churches in Muslim lands than in Christian lands. We see the small Christian community of Gaza hiding under siege in their main church with Israeli snipers picking them off if they venture outside. Mainstream Islam tolerates all three Abrahamic/Ibrahimic religions and had found an accommodation with Hinduism and Sikhism in India before the Brits arrived and destabilised everything, imposing divisive laws against homosexuality and protest. The Prophet also declared that good Muslims should abide by the laws in any country they emigrate to. We both complain about the extremists and I mourn the loss of the moderate Muslim states I encountered in the early 1970s. Islamic extremists are no different than extreme evangelical Christians and Jews. Just take an historical perspective and look at the behaviour and attitudes of so-called Christians in the Bible Belt of the USA and of the extremists driving the expansion of Jewish settlements in occupied Palestine.

I'm genuinely honoured that you're asking about two Sephiroth's. At least you recognise the intellectual value offered by one of me. That said, you've correctly described both of me. In particular, Islam as delivered by those at the top, is incompatible with our society.

On your numbered points:

1/
You've conflated Sunak's behaviour with the real illegal immigration issue. These people, some of whom may be terrorists, many/most of whom destroy whatever documentation they possess, land in Europe. Note, Europe. EU law requires them to be processed at first EU entry point. That may be the case in Greece/Italy, but no attempt is made to contain these people who are allowed to drift west where they are trafficked to the UK. We pay France millions to stop the traffic but, they just shepherd the boats across the border line.

My real point is, why should they be allowed to come here?

I am in favour of a properly agreed (with the EU) and managed quota with protocols that allow us to return unauthorised immigrants to France or wherever.

2/
Islam in today's context, does not do multiculturalism. The historical context is not denied. But the historic context pre-dates the machine gun; pre-dates the Ayatollahs; pre-dates 9/11, 7/, Paris, Sderot. Hizbollah keeps Lebanon in submission; Hamas likewise in Gaza - and look how difficult it is to shut that down.

The baddies tend to dominate in present day politics. The Ultras in Israel are as much proof as is needed. Also watch out for the West Bank and military factions that are developing there.

Whatever the Koran says runs contrary to the actual practice in God's name by the largest Islamic states. Koran/Schmoran - it's whatever they want to highlight from there to suit their agenda.

My overriding fear is that the UK's good Muslims would come under the thumb of the baddies, once they have a Parliamentary majority. The baddies would have the guns and the goodies would, at least, be top of the heap (not being infidels).

I seem to look further ahead than you who prefers to refer to the historical context.