[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by roughbeast

1. Citing a known enemy, Russia, as a diverter of refugees towards Europe, when most refugees are coming of their own volition through Europe's Mediterranean and Turkish border, is a distraction - a massive red-herring. Please understand that hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees is not a conspiracy.


2. I don't think you really want to open a discussion on your hate for Muslims and Islam again do we? You ran out of arguments last time and will run out of them again.

3. The effects of climate change in countries where refugees are coming from, include constant drought and desertification of once productive lands. e.g. in sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan; excessive heat, which has already killed hundreds of thousands; and increased storm surges flooding agricultural land e.g. Mekong Delta, Ganges Delta. These effects will increase and begin to include more low-lying coastal areas as general sea-level rises.

Some of these physical effects of climate change have destabilised existing regimes or democracies. For example, the event that triggered the Syrian War was a peaceful march, including whole families, against Assad's mishandling of the unprecedented drought in the region. Instead of seeking to meet their demands he had them mown down with live gunfire. Apart from the unstable near East, currently there are 15 ongoing wars in Africa, most in regions stressed by climate change. These all create refugees too.

We can help this situation in a number of ways.

a) Long-term all countries must meet their obligations regarding 1.5C and carbon zero by the dates each country pledged. Without that there is no hope.

b) Developed and wealthy countries must commit and ring-fence trillions in dollars/pounds to climate change mitigation schemes, including drilling for fresh water; continuing the growth of the great tree belts such as the one growing in the sub-Sahara (These increase local rainfall and, store carbon and retain water in the soil); education regarding methods for conserving water and growing drought resistant crops; building of sea and river defences; reforestation of water catchment areas to slow down flood water and reduce erosion of good soil.

c) Maintain properly targeted overseas aid aimed particularly at education of boys and girls, clean water supply and treatment, medical facilities and large scale green technology initiatives. Remember, overseas aid is also an investment in future markets, so not a penny is wasted if properly targeted and controlled.

4. You, and people who think like you, have debunked key British values long ago.

What are these British values? I draw your attention to the last two particularly, although given the behaviour of fascist shock troops attacking police at the Cenotaph recently, I am concerned about the rule of law too.

* democracy.
* the rule of law.
* individual liberty.
* mutual respect.
* tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs.
<SNIP>

1. Citing a known enemy, Russia, as a diverter of refugees towards Europe, when most refugees are coming of their own volition through Europe's Mediterranean and Turkish border, is a distraction - a massive red-herring. Please understand that hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees is not a conspiracy.

Sorry to put it this way - but your eyes must be very close together, preventing your ability to focus on reality. IVAN: "Khey, you vant go UK, Abdul?" ABDUL: "Sure - and my friends Ishmael and Moammar?" IVAN: 100% - jump into my truck, I take you now via Finland. From there you go south to France and then simples". PUTIN: "Excellent work, Ivan".

Why should Sunak not be believed? It's actually happening as I cited earlier.

2. I don't think you really want to open a discussion on your hate for Muslims and Islam again do we? You ran out of arguments last time and will run out of them again.

You go too far by using the word "hate". I've explained very cogently what my fears are, shared by millions of Brits if not more. Actors are using "British values" to eventually destroy British Values so that we'll all have to face east. I do not hate Muslims. I do not like Islam as a practised culture, based on my observations over a long number of years. Indeed, Islam does not do multiculturalism.

3. The effects of climate change in countries where refugees are coming from, include constant drought and desertification of once productive lands. e.g. in sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan; excessive heat, which has already killed hundreds of thousands; and increased storm surges flooding agricultural land e.g. Mekong Delta, Ganges Delta. These effects will increase and begin to include more low-lying coastal areas as general sea-level rises.

Some of these physical effects of climate change have destabilised existing regimes or democracies. For example, the event that triggered the Syrian War was a peaceful march, including whole families, against Assad's mishandling of the unprecedented drought in the region. Instead of seeking to meet their demands he had them mown down with live gunfire. Apart from the unstable near East, currently there are 15 ongoing wars in Africa, most in regions stressed by climate change. These all create refugees too.

We can help this situation in a number of ways.

a) Long-term all countries must meet their obligations regarding 1.5C and carbon zero by the dates each country pledged. Without that there is no hope.
[SEPH]: So, there is no hope. Unachievable.
Pie in the sky.

b) Developed and wealthy countries must commit and ring-fence trillions in dollars/pounds to climate change mitigation schemes, including drilling for fresh water; continuing the growth of the great tree belts such as the one growing in the sub-Sahara (These increase local rainfall and, store carbon and retain water in the soil); education regarding methods for conserving water and growing drought resistant crops; building of sea and river defences; reforestation of water catchment areas to slow down flood water and reduce erosion of good soil.
[SEPH]: Again, pie in the sky. Where are these 'trillions' coming from? We're up shit creek anyway and just about manage.

c) Maintain properly targeted overseas aid aimed particularly at education of boys and girls, clean water supply and treatment, medical facilities and large scale green technology initiatives. Remember, overseas aid is also an investment in future markets, so not a penny is wasted if properly targeted and controlled.
[SEPH]: At last, something that stands a chance of being possible. When the Brits left Tanzania, Zambia etc, we left them with a pubic administration system, fresh water plant (my father in law was a design engineer that provided these facilities across countries painted pink on the map). What happened next? Trousering of overseas aid money because we didn't control it. The government talks about controlling it - but does nothing so far as I can see.

4. You, and people who think like you, have debunked key British values long ago.
[SEPH]: Utter nonsense. I go for all of the values you've listed, but have serious reservations about beliefs that intend destroying our British values. These include Communism, Fascism and jihadist forms of Islam.

What are these British values? I draw your attention to the last two particularly, although given the behaviour of fascist shock troops attacking police at the Cenotaph recently, I am concerned about the rule of law too.

* democracy.
* the rule of law.
* individual liberty.
* mutual respect.
* tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs.

Please open your eyes and smell the coffee.