[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I think that, like other (adults) on this forum

debatable

that 10,000+ civilian deaths are too many.

I think one civilian death is too many, you don’t.

You, by sanctioning the current IDF campaign, do not. We need a ceasefire and the UN, led by the US, should go in and create safe havens for the displaced population so they can literally live some form of a life.

He, nor I, or anyone else on here, has “sanctioned” anything. You can only sanction something if you have control over it.

You use emotive words to somehow validate the current IDF response. Should I use phrases like "babies crushed under tons of rubble, children having torn limbs amputated without anaesthetic, premature infants dying in incubators without power, and so on." due to IDF bombing & shelling? It works both ways.

You can, you just did.

What should Israel's response have been? It should have been considered, measured and surgical.

it was considered, it was measured, surgical is an interesting one you’d have to explain in your vast military experience what you mean by that.

It should have used world opinion to help pursue Hamas leadership & funding, in the same way Putin was sanction after invading Ukraine.

What sanctions would you suggest? Cutting power, water, closing crossings to stop imports/ exports……………

It should have stopped the illegal ethnic cleansing on the West Bank and removed the settlements installed over the last 20 years.

The West Bank is a problem and I don’t agree with Israel’s actions in the West Bank, but the West Bank is a separate issue to Gaza.

By doing this it would have shown, like was done in NI, that there is another way to violence and at the same would disenfranchise the appeal of Hamas and restore momentum in the more centrist Palestinian & wider pan-Arab factions.

N.I. Can in no way be correlated or compared to this situation at any level.

---------- Post added at 22:33 ---------- Previous post was at 22:30 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

the straw man of eliminating Hamas

Eliminating Hamas, or at the very least nullifying them so that they are no longer a threat, is not a straw man, it’s a valid objective. How that objective is achieved is very much up for discussion