Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
The goings on in France should be a warning to the UK. The North African culture has now become a discontented force and the Kraken has awakened. And this is all down to numbers.
The Wokerati will say that had there been no discrimination against them, then there'd be no trouble.
But why do you think there is discrimination? Putting aside the small percentage of racists, the truth is that cultures don't give up their traditions and don't/rarely mix. The other cultures call this "discrimination" but it's natural human behaviour to resist ruination of one's society.
Once the numbers rise past a certain point, there is a critical mass and that's what we're seeing in France.
Where do you think we're heading?
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You appear to be confusing integration with assimilation.
Multiculturalism has integration at its core. Integration is what happens when immigrant families, over time, begin to work within the wider economy and society and frequently move out into the leafy suburbs. At the same time they keep many of their religious and cultural practices and such things as food and clothing. The process of integration takes more than a generation, but gathers pace from the second generation. For example, my wife arrived here from the Punjab when she was only three, so effectively is second generation immigrant, her parents being first generation. My wife is now the head teacher of a mostly white school. She has led it from barely Good to Outstanding. She dresses western style for work, gym and everyday activities, but dresses Punjabi for family religious events, multicultural events at school, and on special occasions such as weddings. This is what integration looks like. This is multiculturalism in practice.
We live in the leafy suburbs in a street of about 100 houses. A third of families are white British or 4th generation Irish Catholic immigrants. The remaining families are either Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or Taoist from India, Pakistan, Iraq, mainland China and Armenia. These are all professional people, doctors, accountants, solicitors, business owners or manager or teachers. They arrived in this country as children or were born here, but all started off in the immigrant ghettos (sic) All the cultural groups mentioned so far, including the Irish, are operating seamlessly within our economy and society, but retain their cultural identity celebrating it as you would expect but paying homage to the cultures represented in the street. We send cards for Eid, Chinese New Year, Diwali and Holi etc as well as Christmas. Our immigrant neighbours do likewise for us.
Those who decry multiculturalism focus mostly on conflicts or friction that occasionally happen in communities where economic immigrants or refugees have just arrived. These are the old industrial parts of towns and cities that had become slums over sixty years ago, but have had new life breathed into them by immigrants looking for cheap housing and looking for the comfort of living alongside those in a similar position to them and/or of the same culture. This is only natural. Once established here and having experienced the culturally welcoming multicultural ethos of our education system they begin, confidently and culturally validated, to go forth to university, or expand their own businesses or work in industry, commerce and the services alongside the rest of us. Gradually, they move out into the leafy suburbs, often replaced by new immigrants bringing their own new problems but striving to do well in their new country.
This is the way it is. This is multiculturalism. This is integration.
You appear to want assimilation, where immigrants don't retain and display their cultures as they integrate and where educational institutions don't recognise the richness of cultures within their community. Children gain confidence from affirmation of their cultures in school, be they white British or immigrant, because our cultures and families are part of what we are. To crush or ignore that in an attempt to force assimilation or their new national identity on children is a crime. National identity and culture is the sum of all its parts and is a changing thing. Britishness is a mix of all that its member citizens bring to it. It is different than that 60 years ago and will be different in 60 years time. What must not be allowed is for one element of our population to try to force their cultural or religious norms on the rest of us. That is a key principle of multiculturalism underpinned by our democratic institutions and processes, our laws and by our mostly pluralistic education system. You speak of a critical mass of immigrants or a certain culture or religion taking over the rest of us. What you say is an echo of what was said about the waves of Jewish immigrants arriving in this country, initially via Brick Lane.
Commentators at the time of mass Jewish immigration during the late 19th Century, early 20th Century and upon the rise of Nazi Germany and Stalin, declared that the Jews would soon overrun us. They pointed out the rapid growth of synagogues, virtually 100% Jewish areas, such as Brick Lane, Jewish shops and business polluting us with the smells of Jewish food and the sight of differently dressed people and places where English was not heard. (Eastern European Jews were as markedly different in dress, from indigenous folk, as Muslims and Hindus are now.) Commentators pointed out that Jewish families tended to be big and this meant they might outbreed us, reaching a critical mass that would overwhelm us.
What has really happened over three or four generations? You got it! Integration, with some Jews retaining all their traditions including dress, some dressing and living the same as everybody else, except on high days and holidays and those who have virtually forgotten their old culture. Did the Jews take over? Did they outbreed us? No. Jews are now part of what we are. As with any group of people coming from a country or region with poor education, water supply, medical facilities or work opportunities they had large families. Once here, the second generation had no more children than the indigenous population.
I suggest you focus your indignation on those who really control our lives and our nation, who deny the resources for all of us to live well and thrive and who try to blame the pressures on our institutions on immigrants rather than on those who control the purse strings and the political agenda.
---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I don’t see any useful members of society arriving on the small boats…….do you?
I see people that hate us and our way of life, but like our welfare system.
Legal immigration is different, but no doubt still attracting some people that hate us.
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Define useful.
Is a young healthy man from the Sudan prepared to do labouring, pick crops, wash cars or deliver takeaways useful or not? Is a doctor escaping persecution in Afghanistan or Iran useful or not? Is an engineer escaping jet bombers, snipers in the street in Syria potentially useful or not? Is a trained nurse, the wrong kind of Muslim, escaping the Taliban useful or not? These are the kind of people you find arriving on small boats. Some wait with their children in the refugee camps of first safe countries for their husband who has gone ahead acting as a forerunner. Is that scientific researcher husband and his family useful or not?