[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are not listening - you never do. Farage and co said what they believed was possible. The fact that it was tackled the wrong way does not make him a liar. That is a very perverse logic.

The irony you say I don’t listen then completely ignore that I offered two options.

I ‘invoked’ remainers because they were so intent on wrecking the negotiations as they wanted to get their own way. Your ‘invoking’ the whataboutery card is nonsense because it was those activities which were largely responsible for disruption to the negotiations. It is a reason, not a ‘whataboutery’. People tend to use ‘whataboutery’ to prevent a logical argument highlighting an alternative they don’t like, because it neuters their own argument. It’s the coward’s way out of a discussion.

I fail to see how anyone outside of Government could have any influence on negotiations at all. The Conservatives own this.

The EU was not irrational in trying that line with us, I agree, and I didn’t say otherwise. Theresa May took the rug from under the feet of the Brexiteers, and that was the first thing that put us on the back foot, which was a gift the the remain lobby.

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here. The Conservatives chose May. Prominent members of her Cabinet have served throughout to this day.

Your attempts at deflection are as transparent as they are tedious.

The EU acted entirely rationally. They’ve been underestimated throughout. None of this is a surprise to anyone who wasn’t blinkered by ideology.