Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
A strange statement. As I mentioned before, as this is a public forum I had assumed that if someone make a statement, you could respond with a counter argument. I am not "enforcing" anything here. Your position here is slightly sinister: do not ask questions or you may offend someone. Sound's familiar?
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My position is in no way sinister. Those who have been members here for a long time will no very well I highly oppose a 'do not ask questions or you may offend someone' stance. I have indeed argued the same point about it being a debate forum and that should we only allow contributions that fell in line with other's views, this would be nothing more than a stale utopia that acheives nothing more than a series of back patting - it would get us nowhere. The moment we stop asking why is the moment we stop progressing. Those same people (and as I'm sure you will also learn if you ever have the time to go through older threads), will also know I am in no way religious and have struggled in the past with understanding why someone would follow any ideaology, faith related or not.
And so I agree, we should ask questions in order to better our knowledge, to better understand others and to allow everyone exposure a points of views they may not have considered before. This mindset has allowed me to come the realisation that having a faith and how one expresses that faith are mutually exclusive of one another.
This does not mean one needs to be disrespectful in order to stimulate conversation. As my previous comment said, we should debate and argue the implementation of faith.
However, when it comes to the faith someone holds itself, debating it can be a pointless task. Faith is not something bourne of tactile possessions, of repeatable and measurable testing or any kind of 'proof' that those of us who don't follow faith would accept as enough to convince us it was a real thing.
Belief, Fact and Truth are different things. Sometimes they can be related. Sometimes they are not. For example, if I told you my car was blue, you could take that as the truth because you had belief in what I said. The fact might be my car is red, but until you find out for yourself by seeing it, you have no reason to dimiss your belief my car is blue.
And so religion can be approached by 2 angles;
The first is how I would approach it - I need to see facts that support, without reasonable doubt, there is a God who made and controls everything, before I can believe. Thus I believe the truth is that there is not God because no facts I have seen support the notion of God.
The second would be that until fact are presented that support the notion there is no God, one would choose the believe there is one, because faith has allowed that person to have a God as their truth.
The point is, both of those situations are fine. So long as no harm is done, n one is limited or oppressed due to their belief and no one is forced to believe one thing over the other without the choice being their own, it simply doesn't matter. People should be allowed to believe what they like on the premise no one suffers as a result.
Sometimes though, people may not want to speak about things that are very personal to them. This could be for many reasons. And whilst I too would have many questions for Jaymoss about why they have faith at all and what they believe, there has been a clear request by Jaymoss not to be put in a position where they are questioned about the faith / belief.
Chris here (and Russ if he's still about) know full well I am very vocal and question deeply their expression of faith and the actions they take based on it. And I do this to better understand. I know I can come across as being difficult or a bit of an arse when I do it, but I genuinely want to have a clearer understanding from the perspective of someone who has the capacity to involve and dedicate themselves to something I simply cannot. And whilst I push and debate areas such as making ones children follow an ideaology when they don't have a choice in the matter (which is an implementation of their faith and I feel should be discussed), the point at which anyone would ask me not to question why they have faith or what they believe, just drop it. What does it matter? Whilst it doesn't affect my life, what should I care?
So no, I do not have a position that dictates we should not ask because it might offend someone (people can be as offended as they like - that's up to them and not my problem. There's no rule against offending people as it is very subjective), I do respect a position that when someone says they do not wish to talk about something personal to them, stop pushing.
TL;DR
- I'm not religious
- I have difficulty understanding the mindset of someone who is religious without any proof to back it up
- I absolutely do not think we should not ask questions because it might offend someone - you can be as offended as you like, it doesn't mean I have to find it offensive too
- I absolutely do think that if someone says openly they do not wish to discuss something personal to them, it should be respected
- I'm probably one of the most provocative and questioning people here when it comes to religion, but only whilst others are open to discuss