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Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I am able to address Roughie's post honestly - it's just that on this occasion there's so much there to deal with. If you strip the Remainer sentiment away from Roughie's observations, most of his words are statements of fact - pretty much.
Roughie has made some inconsistencies, though. For example the "carbon-emitting miles" statement; they are the same with our own trade deals as with the EU's. Roughie criticises the notion of a US trade deal where we would be rule takers; he doesn't mind being rule taker from the EU because we had a hand in making those rules.
Brexit will work because Business will see to it (it's what they do). But the Remainers' viewpoint is rooted in the dire warnings they issued during Project Fear - something they did believe in. The Leavers' viewpoint is rooted in sovereignty. Little did the Leavers know that we now have such a useless government.
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Thanks Sephi, for your acknowledgement of my factual approach to the subject. I need to pick up on some of your perceptions regarding my 'inconsistencies'. From where I am sitting they aren't inconsistencies at all.
My reference to carbon-emitting miles was only to address the replacement of trade with our nearest neighbour, the EU, with trade across the wider world. Unless we do something to deal with increased friction across our border with the EU, then the traffic between us will reduce over time. It will need replacing. Why would a German car manufacturer or car component manufacturer put up with multiple disrupted short journeys for an engine, for example, when they can send and receive items, JIT, to customer in Clermont-Ferrand or Prague. Why would a small soft cheese manufacturer in Shropshire send their perishable produce to Almeria, with an uncertain arrival time, when they can fly it more quickly to Winnipeg?
Were we rule takers from the EU? I think not. You have hit upon the major difference between Remainers like me and Leavers like those in the Tory Party, Awkward Squad. For such Eurosceptics it was all about 'us and them' . It was all about thinly veiled xenophobia. To Remainers, emotionally being part of the EU was all about 'us and us'. Economically, if not culturally or politically, we were the same country. For those manufacturers in Germany and Shropshire we were logistically the same country. Sending stuff to Almeria or Clermont was no different qualitatively than send stuff to Dundee or Modena. As 'us and us' we facilitated that flow of goods by pre-agreeing, in fine detail, rules pertaining to product quality, price and specification. Natural distrust between businesses was transcended by trust in the agreed terms, therefore no checks were required at borders. The borders were effectively not there. We made those rules as if we were in the same country in the same sense that the Senate makes rules, where relevant, for the whole of the USA. Rules that were not to do with mutual interest, were not made in Brussels. They were made in the parliaments of the sovereign nations of the EU.
You are right to say that businesses do what they do and that they will find ways to make Brexit work for them, as best they can. Those that trade in bulk will make a better fist of this, because they can send, for example, a whole truckload of the same known gearbox. They can limit the paperwork and also easily absorb the additional cost and/or pass it on to the customer. All they have to worry about is negotiating the massive jams on the A20.
For a small business, sending a couple of palettes a week, the problems are sometimes insurmountable. Their palette, for efficiency's sake, always needed to be sent in a mixed load, and will continue to be sent that way. A mixed load, usually from different producers, will now, since Brexit, generate an enormous pile of paperwork, additional inspections and the attendant fees. These are the trucks causing the queues. Because there are thousands of small businesses trying to continue to trade we can't dismiss this as a small part of our economy. SMEs matter! They are our lifeblood. Even if we identify and burn a whole bunch of 'non-essential', rolled over EU regulations to do with product quality, price and specification, the EU won't be reciprocating. The EU, necessarily, to protect the single market, will always be generating more friction for us, than we will find in trade with the rest of the world. Unless we take the step of nudging nearer to the single market by coming to a Corbyn-style customs union agreement, our trade with the EU will whittle down. EU businesses will increasingly find most of what they wanted from us, within the EU itself - Breton cream will replace Devon cream - Car door panels for Renault, from Liberty Pressings in Coventry, will be replaced by some new plant in Bucharest built with regional development fund support. We will, increasingly replace such EU trade with carbon-emitting long-haul journeys. Our cream may have to go to Tacoma and our car door panels to Lake Orion, Michigan, if, given zero-carbon targets, they want us from so far away. It's what businesses do!