[nomadking]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Again the assumptions there. The issue that BLM and other organisations are raising in the US are about the culture within the police and other state and federal institutions. I don't believe anyone has said it's white police only, but a lot of the issues come from white police as the segregation and racism that plagues the US come from Americans with a European background for the most part.

It's the built in assumption that if you are black, you are immediately a threat, or require heavier handed tactics than if you're white. It's completely possible for someone from a BAME background to hold those views due to the environment they're in.

And as you brought up Jamaica - then that's also being raised as part of the current protests:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...9?profile=1373

And about your 'more white people than black are killed by the police', that's true, but that's because there are more white people than black people in the US. This is the statistic you should be looking at:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-ethnicity-us/

That is a major generalisation. Many of the incidents do not involve violence or resistance on the part of those being arrested, and statistics that I can find do not back up the assumptions that black people being arrested are always more prepared for violence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

The issues that the black and other minority communities can face is that the US police will approach a situation with an assumption that escalates the situation. Traffic stops with guns drawn for instance. It can be different elsewhere but built-in assumptions are not unique to the US.

Resisting arrest doesn't only mean violently resisting. It can also mean just not coming quietly and having to be forced. What else are the police expected to to do? Just let them go?

The central point about countries such as Jamaica is that it emphasises that it is clearly NOT a White v Black issue. Looking around the world also emphasises the Black people do seem to be more violent and aggressive.

Sexual offences and murder rates have risen significantly in South Africa over the past year, according to new official crime figures.Murders recorded by the police have been rising every year for the last decade, and sexual offences including rape have risen 4.6% this year.

...
In that year, there were 15,554 recorded murders. By 2018-19, this figure had increased to 21,022.
That averages out to about 58 murders a day.

Anyone remember the "necklacing"? Types filled with petrol placed around people necks and set alight? Those attacks were aimed at other non-white people.

The practice dates back to the 1980s, when it became the punishment of choice among supporters of the African National Congress (ANC) for alleged collaborators with the apartheid regime - though the ANC leadership said it did not condone it. It was also used against common criminals.

UK, Independent Police Complaints. Commission report on deaths in custody.

Ninety per cent of the deceased in our sample
were male, 76% were White, 7% were Black, 5%
were Asian, 2% were Mixed race, and 1% were
Chinese/other ethnicity (the ethnicity of 9% of the
sample was not stated).
...
Twenty-nine per cent of the sample were involved
in a struggle or violence on arrest, or while in
custody or hospital. Forty-two per cent were
handcuffed either on arrest, or while in custody or
hospital. Twenty-six per cent (87 people) were
physically restrained by officers on arrest, during
transportation or while in custody or hospital.
...
Of the 87 people who were physically restrained by
officers, just under half were arrested for public
order or drugs offences.
...
For 16 people (5%), cause of death was classed as
restraint-related (either primary or secondary
cause of death). Of these deaths 12 people were
White, three were Black and one was Asian. For
four of the 16 people, cause of death was also
classed as positional asphyxia.
...
Fifty six people in the study had some link to drugs
associated with their case. They were significantly
more likely to be younger (aged 18-34 years) and a
higher proportion were from BME groups.

White people have also been killed by having to be restrained.

Eg

The family of a man who died after being restrained face down by officers has accused police of being “arrogant and evasive”, after an inquest jury found that Sussex police’s neglect contributed to his death.
The family of Duncan Tomlin, 32, have fought a five-year battle over his death in 2014. After their partial victory at the inquest they are facing a legal bill of up to £7,000, the Guardian understands.

The police don't restrain people just for the sake of it. They'd much rather you came quietly and peacefully, and without having to be chased.
Switzerland

The police version of events was that, as Chukwu resisted deportation, it was necessary to hold him face down on the ground and handcuff him, with his hands placed behind his back. A final autopsy report states that Chukwu’s death by suffocation was provoked by the position in which he was placed. It points out that Chukwu was highly agitated and that, in a struggle that lasted for several minutes, Chukwu’s physical exertion may have completely drained his oxygen supply. The fact that his hands were then cuffed behind his back, placed him in a position in which it was hard to breathe. And the partial weight of one of the officers on his thorax was a further hindrance to his respiratory system.

So it might have been a (non-white?) officer on his chest, not his neck that caused the problems in the US case. Deportations are a specific example of where people get aggressive, even at the late stage of being on the plane.

Grime star Stormzy has opened up about a horrific past incident where he was stabbed three times.
...
‘I will never forget. I was explaining, “I got stabbed here, there, there”. They had faces of horror — and that’s when it dawned on me. Where I come from is mad. Of course it’s shocking I’ve been stabbed. Of course it shouldn’t be normal.’

Labour MP Diane Abbott had to send her son away to a private school to get away from other black kids.

I knew what could happen to my son if he was sent to the wrong school and got in with the wrong crowd.
I realised they were subjected to peer *pressure and when that happens it’s very hard for a mother to save her son.
Once a black boy is lost to the world of gangs it’s very hard to get them back and I was genuinely very fearful of what could happen.

Trevor Philips on Question Time

The woman's shocking admission came as the BBC One show's panelists discussed the steady increase in street crime, particularly involving knives and what more can be done to stop the epidemic.
...

The Labour Party member and former chairman of Commission for Equality and Human Rights, said: "It is young black men who are dying and by the way young black men doing the killing."

...
"This is not an accidental thing, what is happening is young people are being hunted down by packs of other people," he said.
"They are being stabbed. And aside from the ones who are dying, there are hundreds of people in this city who are being stabbed."
Going on to paint a very disturbing picture, he said offenders are now stabbing youths "in the anus so they have to wear colostomy bags", adding: "This is vicious and out of control."

The central thing is that where somewhere is dangerous to be, that is likely to be because of Black people, and in the US also Hispanic. That really is completely undeniable, no matter how much certain people are determined to deny it.


In the US, police have been killed at simple traffic stops, by people of various colours(ie Black, White, etc). They approach with guns drawn for everybody. It is a FACT, that certain groups of whatever race, are more likely to be violent. Even within a particular race, certain individuals eg elderly, will be treated more lightly. The core issue ISN'T race, but likelihood to be violent. Eg if people wearing blue T-shirts started becoming more violent, then anybody wearing a blue T-shirt would understandably have to be treated with more caution, and with fear of injury to the police officer. Making false assumptions that everybody is "cute and fluffy" gets police officers killed.

In 2017 two thirds of knife crime offenders under 25 in London were black or minority ethnic, according to the Mayor of London’s Office for Policing and Crime.

Who are Police officers going to be more wary of? Why do you think they wear anti-stab vests? Not as a fashion item. The situation in the US for the Police is much worse.

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

When it comes to the Black Lives Matter movement, Black opinions on it do matter more than non blacks.

Really? Where do FACTS come into it?