Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Am I mistaken? I sense that those in this thread who previously supported remaining in the EU (most of them on economic grounds), have not really engaged on the sovereignty aspects of the UK Guvmin's position.
That position is illogical. It cannot be right that as a sovereign country we should be subject to the laws of another legal entity - and in in shambles mode at that.
Why do these people in this thread rest part of their case on "the EU is only protecting its own position" without acknowledging that it is right for the UK to do the same?
Why do these people in this thread not criticise the EU for its bullying stance (".. we are bigger than the UK")?
The nation has voted for Brexit under our voting rules and that should be respected.
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I'll play but this run the danger of going over a well worn path...
Here's my view. Not wanting an argument, just answering your questions;
The European Union is a legal entity that we were part of. We had influence, we had MEPs, we had a seat on the European Council. Now if we vote for MEPs and a government/Prime Minister who are, at best, ambivalent to the functioning of the EU, that's on us as the voters, not on the EU.
The EU was not and is not some monolithic 'other' that ran our country without us having any say. It is a union of nations coming to agreement over issues that had impact to the union as a whole. Nations do not trust one another. This is why legally binding treaties between nations and blocs are in place. The depth of relations and interactions between nations require stronger and deeper treaties.
There is a strange dichotomy in many in the UKs view of current relations between the UK and the EU. There is both British exceptionalism (they need us more than we need them) and paranoia (we're being bullied)
In any negotiation, you need to understand the person you negotiate with's position and get a handle on what they can flex on and what are red lines. You will of course have your own red lines and flex points. The EU tends to be quite open in publishing their position (this is part of how the EU works) while the UK government tends to keep its'cards closer to its chest. Whether the UKs policy of not being so open is a paternalistic approach (trust us public, we know best) or hiding things from the ERG types is not clear.
Do I respect the result of the referendum? Yes. Have I changed my mind about how I would vote if I could go back in time? No, Brexit is a silly idea. If we have to leave the EU, then I would like to it be as soft a landing as possible. Instead, we seem to be going headlong into the most nuclear of options of WTO only while antagonising our neighbours along the way.
That's my 2cents, sorry 2p :-)