[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I think the debate is around the tension between delegated democracy ie Parliament and the Lords and direct democracy ie the referendum. The latter is an integral part of democracies like Switzerland but the UK does not have a long tradition in this area.

I’m quite certain that the sovereignty discussion was of a leaver/Remainer flavour. Both sides correct and neither accepting the other’s total view on what sovereignty entails.

You have just rekindled the representative vs direct democracy debate, which touches sovereignty particularly when parliamentary sovereignty pokes two fingers up to direct democracy.

I would have thought that Brexit has introduced a tradition that the people are worth consulting and that ruling elites should be so guided.




---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

Originally Posted by roughbeast

<SNIP>

Democracy only works if the people have all the facts in front of them. We failed to provide them that. The way the referendum was conceived and deployed failed to deliver a democratic process up to the day of the binary referendum vote, leaving Parliament an angrily divided nation and no clue as to what kind of Brexit voters wanted. The following three years reflected that impossible conundrum. Parliamentary democracy didn't fail. Direct democracy failed.

That is a terrible thing to say. Your preceding paragraphs sought to justify that binary referenda are a folly. No they are not - avoiding them would be a patent display of government dodging an issue that needs to be put to the people.

‘Parliamentary democracy’ never occurred back then; only ‘parliamentary sovereignty’ happened. If you can’t see that then I’m worried.

As to buses and lies, both sides exaggerated their claims. Well after all that was exposed, the GE settled matters; the people had not been deceived.




---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 ----------

..... and btw, I am a Gina Miller fan. Everyone has the right to challenge government power in the courts.