[Sephiroth]

It’s a shame that Mick brought that into the debate for the reasons implied by jonbxx’s observation.

That said, the EU is on fragile ground what with all the goings on. I don’t think it will implode if the likes of Poland & Hungary leave. I know quite a lot about Poland and they’ve had the major EU investments needed to bring them close to western standards; I imagine Hungary to be similarly endowed. But that’s one strand tearing at the EU fabric.

There are other strands, though. The Euro is on shaky foundations. France wants to federalise the Euro, thus making Germany the guarantor of debts made by the likes of Greece. Germany engineered the Euro so that would not happen and all funds would pour into German wealth that they now don’t want to share; note I only criticise the “engineering” aspect. The Euro can ultimately only succeed if the EU is a federal state.

Then there is Ireland. Varadkar really crapped on us - remember we went straight in with £7 billion to help bale Ireland out when the credit crunch started. That disgraceful man is exploiting the GFA for no better reason than to better his position and to protect Irish exports to the UK. And the EU has gotten straight onto that in order to force us to stay in the CU. If we have a hard border (so what if we do? And they’ll have to erect it) then any recurrence of terrorism will have to be on his conscience.

We have nothing to fear from WTO rules, even though that would not be ideal. The important thing is for the guvmin to be forthright about this (unless May knows something beneficial that we don’t).

We are a proud nation on both sides of the 52/48 split and we should only think of moving forward and calling the EU’s bluff.

Btw, if the Brussels lot stop our overflights, de-allow our driving licences and so on, no remainer should be so disloyal as to still like the EU.