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Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You are right to call out those who come out with this fascist rubbish.
But please do not tar all Brexiters with that brush as you (possibly unintentionally) have done.
People here are going into the square root of Airbus, BMW and using it as an argument not to let the Referendum result prevail. Sure, try to get a good deal (those Brussels turds don't want us to have a reasonable deal); obviously no deal is better than a bad deal. As I say, the UK is of sufficient critical mass to make a thorough go of things.
But the nub of all this is are we to be the vassal state of the EU or do we plough our own furrow as a sovereign state?
I suspect that those remainers on this forum who are provoking this Project Fear stuff will avoid a direct answer to my question. Or they'll dance around it and change the question.
Just get on with Brexit.
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You say "do not tar all Brexiters with that brush" but then you paint yourself with another: "those Brussels turds". Using such language encourages no-one to enter into a serious adult debate.
---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I've said that we're more than 60 million people. That's enough to make a success of our country with both its buying power and its in-house skills
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You keep saying this but having that many people in your country does not preordain economic prosperity. Don't forget a lot of our "in-house skills" as you put it are vulnerable to Multinationals deciding to off shore them if the economic outlook is not favourable to them.
The industry I work in, IT, has seen many highly skilled UK workers made redundant not because they were not skilled or productive but because the company wanted to employ cheaper staff in Eastern Europe, India, China, etc.
---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
But the nub of all this is are we to be the vassal state of the EU or do we plough our own furrow as a sovereign state?
I suspect that those remainers on this forum who are provoking this Project Fear stuff will avoid a direct answer to my question. Or they'll dance around it and change the question.
Just get on with Brexit.
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Just a reminder that we are a sovereign state, just not in the way you want.
I had thought we had left behind the childish Project Fear labelling. If you object to the information presented, just explain why it is wrong and present your own counter argument, backed by facts.
---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Bless you. Do forgive me for going in rather hard. The 'other side' don't want to acknowledge such matters as German hegemony and are thus content to be EU rule takers. That is the 48/52 divide.
On the point of having question answered, you didn't! The question was:
But the nub of all this is are we to be the vassal state of the EU or do we plough our own furrow as a sovereign state?
You got into the logic of the term "vassal state" but avoided answering the nub as to reverting to a sovereign state.
Do you want the UK to be part of a federal Europe? In the EU but not in the federal arrangement? Out of the EU but vassal by being a rule taker? Out of the EU and fully sovereign?
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Not true, I for one tried to reply to your assertion that the EU is a project designed to make Germany richer. You just do not like the answers.
I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and after visiting the various WWII institutions, can clearly understand why they are motivated in the way they are and why they are so nervous of the rise of nationalism across Europe.
As Churchill said in 1957:
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We genuinely wish to join a European free trade area – and if our continental friends wish to reach agreement, I am quite sure a way can be found and that reasonable adjustments can be made to meet the essential interests of all.
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I feel he would saddened by the attitude of many in the UK ..
---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You may well be right about WTO rules. But that was fathest from my mind. Up front was the EU/Irish ploy at using the Good Friday Agreement as a means of making life easier for Ireland. The perfidious Varadkar had WTO farthest from his mind when he commenced his perfidy.
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What is it with "perfidy"?
Don't you see the job of the EU, which includes Eire, is to get the best outcome for their members, not for us. We are the ones who are divorcing them! Maybe we can get a divorce on the grounds of our mental incapacity
