Challenge accepted
The EU was and is not a separate entity to the nation state. It’s the result of a series of treaties between countries to promote trade and foster a collaborative atmosphere. You can’t really be a vassal state of on organisation you help run.
[SEPH]: Correct - to a point. The EU is a body that is now founded on "ever closer union"; namely the dissolution of the nation state. The UK would never accede to that extent and would remain a nation state - whether inside or outside the EU. But then Greece is now a vassal state, so engineered by the Germans who also engineered the Euro to its advantage. If we LEAVE the EU, but are bound in a rule taking manner, we would be a vassal state. We are LEAVING the EU so "vassal state" is mentioned in that context. If we do remain in the EU, the current direction of travel it is taking would reduce our influence; we would thus be on the sidelines if not a vassal state.
We have 73 MEPs and of course a seat on the EU council inhabited by Theresa May at present. We have a say in all decisions made and are pretty successful in this with well over 90% of the time being on the winning side in council votes.
[SEPH]: Yes. That would be wonderful if the CAP was de-skewed from being to France's advantage; if we could actually have greater control over our fisheries - to name just two.
If we choose something like EEA membership, then will will have the benefits but no say. Then I would agree that the term vassal state would apply but as a fully paid up member of the EU, no.
[SEPH]: Agreed - see my earlier remark in this reply
Why has it not worked for the UK population is the big question. In my opinion, there are a few answers which are not mutually exclusive. First, we have never been invaded in modern times and certainly did not suffer like other countries in the Second World War and Cold War. Being under the cosh of other states will focus the mind of cooperation being preferable to conflict. Of course, the counter argument is ‘what about Germany’? There is a collective institutional recognition of what nationalism does to a country and your average German will push back hard if you cite ‘Deutschland Uber Alles’.
[SEPH]:Ah - the Germans. Of course they'll push back; more than content that they have an 8% surplus year on year (the rules allow only 3%). The cash flows into Germany and out of everywhere else. This is German hegemony, nothing less and no wonder the Germans like it. Deutschland ueber Alles.
The second reason, linked to the first as that we never really ‘took part’. Look at the turnouts for European elections. These elections were time to make a protest vote with ‘no harm’. However, this meant that we have been under represented in the European Parliament by our own hands. Look at the attendance figures of our MEPs as an example.
[SEPH]: A complete red herring, I'd have to say. The people don't vote in the European elections because there's little point given the hostility of the MEPs to the UK. The reason that the European Parliament is majority for federalisation is very simple: they know that they would trump all national parliaments, especially ours. However, when the Referendum took place, the voters turned out. That tells you something.
The final reason is that it has been easy to blame ‘others’ for our own countries failings. The UK negotiated an opt out for signs to be posted on EU funded projects. The EU gave over £20m for the reconstruction of Manchester City centre after the 1996 bombing but you wouldn’t know. My mum lives in the wilds of Scotland and the local busses are funded by the EU as it is a deprived area and there’s no government funding. Hopefully of course, some of that sweet £350m will come in to replace that funding but I have my doubts.
[SEPH]: Please don't praise the EU's generosity. This is a plain case of the EU Commission doing the right thing with the proportion of the money we give them that is then allocated back to our projects. Brexit gives us control over that spending. I understand your point - which boils down to not trusting the UK to prioritise such projects. But it was a total crap shoot as to whether or not the EU would prioritise them. We have elections that can punish our politicians; but the unelected EU Commission is not accountable to the EU citizens.