Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
You are right to call out those who come out with this fascist rubbish.
But please do not tar all Brexiters with that brush as you (possibly unintentionally) have done.
People here are going into the square root of Airbus, BMW and using it as an argument not to let the Referendum result prevail. Sure, try to get a good deal (those Brussels turds don't want us to have a reasonable deal); obviously no deal is better than a bad deal. As I say, the UK is of sufficient critical mass to make a thorough go of things.
But the nub of all this is are we to be the vassal state of the EU or do we plough our own furrow as a sovereign state?
I suspect that those remainers on this forum who are provoking this Project Fear stuff will avoid a direct answer to my question. Or they'll dance around it and change the question.
Just get on with Brexit.
|
Challenge accepted
The EU was and is not a separate entity to the nation state. It’s the result of a series of treaties between countries to promote trade and foster a collaborative atmosphere. You can’t really be a vassal state of on organisation you help run. We have 73 MEPs and of course a seat on the EU council inhabited by Theresa May at present. We have a say in all decisions made and are pretty successful in this with well over 90% of the time being on the winning side in council votes.
If we choose something like EEA membership, then will will have the benefits but no say. Then I would agree that the term vassal state would apply but as a fully paid up member of the EU, no.
Why has it not worked for the UK population is the big question. In my opinion, there are a few answers which are not mutually exclusive. First, we have never been invaded in modern times and certainly did not suffer like other countries in the Second World War and Cold War. Being under the cosh of other states will focus the mind of cooperation being preferable to conflict. Of course, the counter argument is ‘what about Germany’? There is a collective institutional recognition of what nationalism does to a country and your average German will push back hard if you cite ‘Deutschland Uber Alles’.
The second reason, linked to the first as that we never really ‘took part’. Look at the turnouts for European elections. These elections were time time to make a protest vote with ‘no harm’. However, this meant that we have been under represented in the European Parliament by our own hands. Look at the attendance figures of our MEPs as an example.
The final reason is that it has been easy to blame ‘others’ for our own countries failings. The UK negotiated an opt out for signs to be posted on EU funded projects. The EU gave over £20m for the reconstruction of Manchester City centre after the 1996 bombing but you wouldn’t know. My mum lives in the wilds of Scotland and the local busses are funded by the EU as it is a deprived area and there’s no government funding. Hopefully of course, some of that sweet £350m will come in to replace that funding but I have my doubts.