[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Risking the wrath of the off-topic police but here goes

They seem very happy to let this naturally flow wherever it is going and we are still talking about the EU here so it does come back full circle.

Trying to govern a country of mainly non-theist individuals and a disparate set of widely differing faiths based on the tenets of one specific faith is misguided at best, disturbing at worst. So any politician who try to bring their personal beliefs to the (political) table is on a hiding to nothing.

Actually, in the midst of struggling to govern a nation of non believers in such a way shows that his religious principle is unmovable, right?

Not like he gains much from it (politically speaking) so it goes to show that he believes what he says, he means it and it does not matter whether it is unpopular or not.

Would you rather that he ignore his views and pretend to hide them?

Quoting scripture to backup an argument is as useful as a chocolate teapot. You can put together justification for most things from the Old and New Testament so it means nothing when reinforcing an objective point.

So? Those of us who have faith in our life do not use it for the purpose of making an objective point. We believe what we believe and irregardless of how it may or may not be ridiculed, we believe it none the less.

If JRM ever puts God before Country, he's political toast ...

Again, he won't care - comes back to this EU stuff. When we get up to the gates you think that Saint Peter is really going to care what we did about the bill to leave and referendum?

JRM will not care one hoot if his political career is toast. He is a rich man who is only involved in politics for other people...he isn't doing this for himself.

His true judge is all he will care about.

---------- Post added at 02:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I know your belief is sincere, Chloé, but I think we should make up our own minds and think for ourselves on these matters, rather than rely on ancient texts written by people who lacked the depth of understanding we now have. The danger of unconditional belief are amply demonstrated in the rise of ISIL.

Those texts are what guide us into the views that we hold, though - dear or otherwise.

For example (as difficult as it may be) if you saw an Eastern European immigrant who was starving on the street instead of wishing him to be deported I would hope that you would try and help him out / give him a hand.

The teaching of the belief is different and while IS may have painful, hideous and nasty teachings nothing in my faith tells me to show anything but love to my fellow human beings. In following God's laws I try do that to the best of my abilities.

Look at abortion from a different perspective. Rather than just quote from a firm 'belief', argue the point that abortion involves the murder of a human being who has consciousness and feeling. The issue should not be whether the baby is capable of living after abortion, but whether it can be conscious of its situation and feel pain. If it can do so, then abortion in those circumstances is murder, pure and simple. Abortion at up to 12 weeks, to my mind, is acceptable, based on what I know.

Let's say that you are correct and that they feel no physical pain before 12 weeks. For me that is irrelevant to my own actions and behavior and could never see any justifications for killing a child in the womb either way. Just because he or she does not feel pain does not justify it at all, IMO. For me, it is still murder and the pain makes it even worse. Even without any pain though, the act is still wrong IMO.

As far as the subject of this thread is concerned, I don't think religion is relevant at all. Either Brexit will work or it won't. Personally, I think there are enormous potential benefits from getting out, and the real danger is staying in. This monolithic monstrosity will implode sooner or later, and we don't want to be in it when that happens.

Religion is not relevant? If it was not for the religious divide, Ireland would be whole / one. If that were the case it would be the biggest stumbling block taken care of.

Another thing (on that front) - how difficult is it to get major figures and media to realize the flaw of the word Brexit? Britain - presumably what the BR in Brexit stands for? That is defined as the kingdom of England merging with the Kingdom of Scotland (Wales was a part of England back then). Now the UK...that is the Island of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So if it was truly just "Brexit" then the Ireland issue would not exist, either.

That is tripping this thing up all over the place - the Ireland issue. God's holy own Catholic nation, bordering with the protestants north of the border and there is no way round that.

See why religion is relevant? Because you are correct, it will either work, or it will not.

Without acceptance that religious accommodation is needed, it won't.