[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, we can't control EU immigration! People walk into this country and as long as they can get work, they are allowed to stay. What Brexiteers say is that we should only take in people from outside this country if we have a skills shortage and employers feel that this is the only way of addressing it. The reason for the restrictions we want to see is nothing to do with race, it is simply the fact that we are already overcrowded, which places a strain on our housing, education, health service and social services.

Okay so your user name is "OLD BOY"...can I ask how old you are? I don't mean this in a derogatory way at all, but who do you think makes sure that your pension pot is full? Social care...aside from tax increases how else is it going to be paid for? Immigrants contribute more to society than they ever take. It does not leave people out of work at all - they are jobs that will not be filled anyway without the migrant work.

As for housing / education etc - do you expect them to be deprived of the care they are entitled to? The housing and education that everyone gets? Or would you rather that they are treated as second class citizens?

By all means, now that the UK is leaving the EU the UK can do as it chooses with housing / education etc...just don't expect EU immigrants to make sure they operate the system too (by supplying Nurses / teachers etc).

It is you that is the gamble here (not you personally, but your generation) and they voted "leave" more than anyone so time to put your money where your mouth is I guess.

If there was a balance between immigration and emigration, this would not have become an issue.

Ummm, that is like the argument on trade deals / the CU. Same principle - if you are in the SM you have to accept free movement - totally. That means all 4 principles...not the ones that you wish to pick and chose but all of them.

Now, you could have some restrictions / allow some people in from the EU (with as many caps as you wish) but not be a member of the SM but with no benefits of the SM the burden and drain would be severely on us.

And it is all very well for you to say that we can send them back if they don't get work, but that depends on whether we can find them!

No offense but whose fault is that? The EU don't restrict how we keep a track of these people so if we can't figure out where they are, that is on us. Also the minute they try access services (healthcare etc) they become pretty noticeable to authorities - if you think they are running round the country and can't be found (which is your reason for not wanting them here) then ask for more resources to turn Britain into even more of a police state I guess.

We should only let in those who have the skills we require until we can restore the balance. Leaving the EU will help us to achieve that.

What?

Let's start from the very basics here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...lation/mar2017

Our population is losing (through death or emigration) a certain number of people every year.

The UK birth rate is also at a 10 year low:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8066101.html

There were 774,835 live births in the UK in 2016, the lowest rate since 748,563 live births in 2006 and down from a peak of 812,970 births in 2012, new data from the Office for National Statistics show.
Although the population is still growing overall – there were 597,206 deaths recorded – the new data show the demographic decline in certain parts of the UK with less immigration such as Scotland where there were 54,488 live births and 56,728 deaths.
This is at the lowest point since 2006 when 55,690 babies were born – and 55,093 deaths – with the rate peaking in 2008 at 60,041 live births compared to 55,700 deaths.

In fact forget all this...it will just get you completely bogged down in the numbers.

Just look at it this way:

There were 697,852 live births in England and Wales in 2015, an increase of 0.4% from 2014.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...dandwales/2015

There were 529,655 deaths registered in England and Wales in 2015, an increase of 5.6% compared with 2014.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...arytables/2015

With the TFR dropping and dropping (along with the birth rate hitting a 10 year low) the population will become stagnant and start falling like other nations that have a very closed off immigration system - like Japan.

Do you get from just a statistical POV that with less people there will be less paying tax and with an ever aging society / older and older people living longer and longer that the whole system is untenable and unstable?

I mean to put it bluntly, who on earth is going to pay for all these services that you keep talking about? Less being born, less immigrants, LFPR lower and lower, more elderly dependents / rising costs per person...what am I missing here? How do you propose making this all work?