Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh
You know what i give up ,you asked the question and every time someone tries to answer it you shout them down .Joining EFTA is an option ,it would mean we would not have to be in the single market but would benefit from some of the FTA's already in place ,or we could simply trade under WTO rules or we could negotiate our own FTA with the EU,the latter could be negotiated over the 2 year period and start the day after Brexit.There are options and we will take one and it will be ok simply because we are the 5th largest trading nation in the world,the EU need us to continue pretty as before for their own stability ,we already have all the needed regulations and infrastructure in place .You really need to get over yourself and stop trying to convince everyone that the end of the world is nigh simply because we kicked the failed EU into touch.Most of the world manage without EU membership, so will we .
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I've no time to answer this in full. I'm not shouting you down I'm pointing out that you are wrong and explaining why.
If you insist that you know best and all the lawyers, trade experts, etc, are wrong that's your prerogative, but it is absurd to suggest we could join EFTA without joining the EEA; the main point of EFTA is free trade with the EU without the political integration, and as already noted we won't be members of the WTO initially - it could be delayed for years as we need unanimous agreement from the other members.
Apart from yourself I have seen no-one suggest that we could join EFTA without joining the EEA. I would presume there's a good reason for that unless you're privvy to some finer details of the EFTA - EU relationship.
The EU do not need us to continue as before. We are 5% of their exports, they are ~44% of ours, and most of their exports to us are goods, not services. This is a lose:lose, there is no 'win' for the EU here, and there cannot be any 'win' for us either, else the entire thing comes crashing down.
We're the 5th largest trading nation in the world. They're the world's largest trading bloc. This is why we're gearing up to use people as leverage. Trade wise, we have very little.
---------- Post added at 11:24 ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone
Anyone would think certain sections would like us to fail just to do a 'told you so' and making it a self fulfilling prophecy.
Whilst it's democratically correct to allow dissenters to dissent, it would be wise for all concerned to appreciate that we have legitimately voted and chosen this path and if we all swam in the same direction and actually pulled together, we'd get a positive result rather better than the doom and gloom laden one predicted by many.
Perception is reality in many cases and whilst I'm not suggesting it's going to be smooth and easy - something so many of the 'instant now' lot seem to fail to grasp. If we believe we're going to fail, we WILL fail, we need to be united, is that so hard to do?
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Wanting a particular outcome is perfectly legitimate. Campaigning for that outcome and indicating that others will be bad, based on evidence, is perfectly legitimate.
What you might call a failure I would call a success. I don't want the country to fail which is why I would prefer as close a relationship to the EU as possible, while appreciating that ignoring the result, regardless of the banality of the campaign, isn't feasible.
I believe 'hard Brexit' will be a failure in the short and medium terms at least. I'll continue to make the case for EEA membership regardless of how futile it seems. Doing this is not making the case for going in a different direction, it's choosing a different path going in the same direction.
The majority of people, according to Leave.EU, voted leave primarily because of immigration. One of the biggest cheerleaders for Brexit, Dan Hannan, indicates Brexit doesn't necessarily mean less immigration.
I would suggest that immigration isn't worth harming our economy over, and we'd be far better served dealing with the proven less productive immigration from South Asian states rather than scapegoating largely productive EU migration. With EEA membership we would be provided an emergency break similar to the one David Cameron negotiated which would allow us some time to fix our own infrastructure issues, build some houses, hospitals and schools, and invest in public services. We'd also have the opportunity to petition for the changes to free movement so that it emphasises free movement of labour per the treaties.
Of course I'd prefer remaining where we are, but we are where we are, and I'll continue to make the case for what I consider as the next best thing.
EDIT: It's quite a strange attitude that those who don't want a hard Brexit want the country to fail. If I wanted the country to fail I wouldn't care either way.