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Originally Posted by RizzyKing
93% out guess the jokes on them I'm 100% that we need out but again I've heard the repeated rubbish that leaving the EU is running away from the world and turning our back blah blah blah. I have not spoken to anyone supporting leave that wants us to be insular and doing anything other then developing good trade and diplomatic relations all round the globe certain remain supporters need to try and shovel less brown stuff around. Also I don't think leaving will be all snowflakes and unicorns and there will be a short term economic hit but it will be a hit that we will be able to manage and wipe out as we trade more freely with more nations.
Let's not kid ourselves that staying in the EU is economically safe because before this referendum started quite a few economists were warning of numerous economic problems within the EU though they all seem to be encouraging the uk to now remain clearly people of great conviction. This is the real world swings and roundabouts there are no guarantees economically never have been but what is guaranteed is if we leave we and we alone can set our own rules and trade and diplomatic treaties for the main benefit of the uk and if we remain in the EU those things will be decided for us.
Independence and sovereignty are more important to many of us and more important then short term economics and I think that's what we see and think a lot of people interpret that as those in the leave camp don't think there will be economic hits from leaving but it's just they value other things more.
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Neither option is guaranteed purely because no one can guarantee it.
My own opinion is that economically, we are safer IN Europe. Other countries won't magically give us favourable terms because we have left Europe. They will give us favourable terms IF we can offer them something. Previously, that something has often been easy access to the other countries in the European Union. Leaving Europe won't mean that all our trading agreements magically disappear. They won't. However, the terms offered when the agreements expire and need to be renegotiated won't necessarily be as good as they are now. They may be better, be may be worse. We don't know.
Regarding the economic problems in the EU, I would argue that due to the way the international financial markets work, we would still be affected by economic problems within the EU regardless of whether we are in or not. We were affected by the recession caused by the problems with sub prime lending in the US after all, and arguably still are. At least if we are in Europe, we may be in a position to influence things, and possibly reduce the impact on our economy.
As for setting our own laws, that again is a case of swings and roundabouts. Remember, the people running our own government aren't necessarily working for the rights of the voters. In fact, our government negotiated away working week limits that the EU was trying to impose on us, because apparently it's perfectly adequate for people making life or death decisions to have to work >50 hours a week. This, I suspect, is why we were apparently the ONLY european country whose government did not attempt to educate the populace about the Maastricht treaty. They also passively encouraged companies like Phorm to spy on internet users, a practice they stopped when the EU stepped in, saying it violated EU surveillance laws. That's two examples, there are others.