Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
So basically even if a party that is right of centre and they advocate authoritarian policies then they are also left wing. So I can't really ever show an example of a right-wing administration enacting illiberal policies because they'll also be examples of a right-wing government that has moved left. You have again simply tried, wrongly, to equate authoritarian with the left alone. I cannot ever refute that because examples I give of authoritarian regimes on the right will be dismissed as socialism.
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it's the endless preaching and do-gooder-ism that is slowly eroding people's rights.
Eat less meat
Eco-fascism
constantly introducing new laws and offences that curb people's freedom and rights to self-determination.
Constantly being told how to feel,what to say and how to act. Political correctness,a wonderful tool to control people without ever having necessarily enact any legislation.
I don't like gays... HOMOPHOBE!!!!
I don't want half the population in any given area not speaking English... RACIST!!!!!
maybe people need to look after themselves a bit more.... cold-hearted Capitalist!!!!
I could continue this list ad infinitum,the left loves to smear it's opponents with all sorts of nasty labels in order to control the gullible fools who follow them and their ideology,all in the vain hope of getting a chunk of the pie they couldn't earn themselves,too.
Funny how Socialists,the left and far-left go on and on about the need to share when it is always those who are supposed to share the most who also contribute the most.... it's just as well that lefties never question this all the while the party officials live in splendour and laugh at the gullible fools that follow them. The truth is the vast majority are worse off under socialists,except of course those who profit directly and those in power...
Labour bloated the state to proportions of absolute ridiculousness.... employed thousands upon thousands of people in non-jobs such as diversity co-ordinator,H&S officers and what not. The truth is for Labour it was all about being able to have a bit of the good lifestyle,as well. Let the champagne-corks fly,even better so as it is on somebody else's dime.... who cares? Once the party is over all e need to leave i a note saying: 'There's no money left',and then we can immediately attack the 'nasty party' for actually trying to sort the mess out.....
Best example? Those in power in east Germany were enjoying all sorts of products from the West,and indeed shop in their government district stocked mainly western products,all the while telling East Germans how the west was inferior and their enemy.... lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Socialist policies tend to concern themselves with the provision of services for citizens at the expense of higher tax. That's quite simplistic but it's generally the case. I haven't seen many socialists who advocate for a police state.
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Please look at socialist states in history and name one that wasn't a police state.That's what socialism leads to in the end,it is always about controlling people,via the police,political correctness,the 'right'diet or otherwise. Socialists always know what's best for you,and much better than yourself,too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Indeed the more liberal organisations in this country are opposed to these measures. Usually they're called 'liberal do-gooders'. It's new to me that liberals are the ones who call for DNA and Internet databases, increased CCTV and secret courts.
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So Labour didn't suggest everybodies DNA is kept on file,wether guilty or not?
http://southwark-libdems.org.uk/en/a...n-dna-database
so Labour didn't suggest people could be arrested for all offences?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3557266.stm
So Labour didn't create thousands of new criminal offences and filled our prisons to the brim?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ur-918053.html
yeah,lefties are really liberal....
I think you're mixing up your definitions here,the left is almost opposite of being liberal. Liberals love freedom whereas the left hate it because they can't control free people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Let's look at two examples. David Davies, a Conservative, and George Galloway a far-left liberal. These two agree on almost nothing but what does unite them is opposition to measures such as the Internet Database and ID Cards. This is because whilst their at opposite ends of the traditional left/right spectrum they're at similar ends of the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum.
You can be on the left and a libertarian and be on the right and authoritarian and vise-versa. Authoritarianism is not a result of socialism.
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No,Galloway opposed this because of his liberal instincts,if he was just far-left he would have supported it. After all,the ID card scheme was dreamed-up by Labour,yes?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...pping-id-cards
just another cool £257 million spent on it,but hey,it's OPM,right?
(other people's money)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
I didn't name you. I said people. It was Ramrod who said the left were responsible for the deaths of 100 million people.
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no worries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
America is interesting too. They've detained people without trial for years, they've tortured people, they've had wire-taps without warrants, they've reserved the right to kill people abroad. Are they now left-wing too?
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No,and you have to show me where I suggested such tactics are the preserve of the left....
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf
Given your international perspective then, I'm sure that you will also agree that Labour (in essentially a 2 party state) is not necessarily the best or a representative example of left wing politics.
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Labour is indeed the perfect example of left-wing politics.... state control isn't just DNA databases or police surveillance,it's the whole-sale control of thought and what is right or wrong.Anybody who dissents gets shouted down and/or marginalised. Amazing how quickly people forget how oppressive Labour were and how they decided what was 'correct and what wasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Which victims of which policies?
I want to know which policies exactly are responsible for the murder of 100 million people.
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just look up Communism and victims of Communism,and look how it developed.Take a look at Socialist states.There you'll find the policies that end up in millions upon millions of people being miserable or dead.
It's funny,I've spoken to a good few people on my visits to East Germany and from conversations amongst the grown-ups I never heard a good thing about their oh-so-benevolent socialist government. (I was just 12 then)
For Britain's sake I hope we get a Tory/UKIP coaltion in 2015,or otherwise Labour will spend the last bit of the money we haven't got. All I ever see and hear in the press leads me to the conclusion that they haven't learned a thing and never will.
That's all.
