[Pierre]

Originally Posted by danielf

Completely disingenuous.

is that your new favourite word?

The fact of the matter is that you made a calculation showing that the hypothetical policeman has a shortfall of a factor 5 whilst disregarding the employer's contributions,

No, I showed a liability to the tax payer, I didn't disregard the employer contributions because the employer and taxpayer are one in the same.

So, your number is wrong

no it isn't, how is it wrong? The police contribution come direct from the tax payer, they don't generate their own income.

The point about choice is moot as well. With every product or service I buy I contribute to wages, bonuses, pensions and other benefits of employees for the companies
involved.

yes, and as long as you do that's great but should you stop buying a product and service then that hits their income and ability to contribute to the employee whereas you have to pay your tax no matter what so the police will always have an income. The issue then becomes when the government can't collect as much tax as they'd like because e.g. We're in a recession or the previous govt spent it all, then suddenly the cash isn't there to underwrite the pension liability.

At the end of the day, the only meaningful comparison is between pay packages as a whole, not just the selective bits that you think you can quote because they support your argument.

at the end of the day, I've come to the conclusion you don't know what you're talking about or you just don't understand

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

You have to remember that the public sector provide a public service, of which many are essential, and in many cases dangerous. And for this they are paid a lower wage than the private sector equivalent, as an average over their career.

Don't come the lower wage bull poo, public sector wages are no longer behind the private sector, many menial public sector jobs have been privatised.

Now before anyone starts shouting, I know that in the present economic climate many private sector wages are closer (if not lower in some cases). But when the economy is in a better state, then it is the private sector that benefits with bigger pay rises, and bonuses, etc... This is not the case in the public sector. So I bet none those who will reap the benefits when we are out of the recession will be complaining then.

just not true and too simplistic, in the last 12 years I have not had a pay rise higher than 3%, if I got one at all. Like this year zilch.

Now if you want to pay 14% of your pay into a pension, then go ahead and do it, and then you will get a far better return also. But police and firefighters didn't have any choice.

maybe not but your return is guaranteed