[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Let me put it this way, if we are going to leave, it’s going to be rather bitter and I do not think we would be on rather friendly terms to join the EEFA, they are not exactly going to cut trade with us, but it would be harder and less friendly

So what? They'll still want the trade, and we can even give them a transitional period where we'll continue to subsidise French farming and allow Spanish fishermen in our sovereign territorial waters.

I'm sure you think of this as being a sudden and violent thing, it wouldn't be, it would have a long transitional period during which the UK makes its required bilateral agreements with the EU and takes its place in the EFTA.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

My point about China is that no matter what we do, we would be under influence from China, so if we don’t want be under anyone’s influence, then don’t bother leaving

This makes no sense. It's one thing having trade influenced by a strong third party, quite another being under the level of influence that the EU have over us. Their influence is pervasive.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Anyway, if you want to create a Commonwealth Economic Area (which is a good idea), then that has to include open borders with all those states (which is a good idea), but these days many of them do not really care much about the UK, Just ask the Indians, Canadians and Australians!

No it doesn't have to include open borders. Free trade of goods and services doesn't require free movement of people.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

And for god sake, don’t associate me with a shameful party like the Lib Dems
Lastly we did joined the EEC, we knew that it would lead to a USE, after all a TORY PM Winston Churchill said “We need a United States of Europe” (Remember the Tories help create the ECHE, just ask Andrew Neil)

The people who voted in the referendum would've probably quite liked to have known this given they were told they were voting on a common market. I'm also amused you keep referring to the Tories. This isn't a party political issue, it's way beyond the pathetic politics of Westminster.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

As for Ireland, if we leaving the EU (unless Ireland joins us) would mean there would be border controls on the NI/Eire border, also it would enviably reduce ties and Nationalists (who want a United Ireland) would worry about how it affects NI links with Eire

Not really, perfectly possible for Ireland and Northern Ireland to form bilateral agreement.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Then there are the people who receive EU subsidiaries…

Given we're by a mile a net contributor to the EU budget this is easily mitigated by offering an equivalent to the EU subsidies (not subsidiaries) as a transitional point.

Removing the restrictions applied by the CAP will change our food supply in some ways, sure, however again there is no reason why we can't if so inclined, subsidise sectors of our farming sector with the money we save by not paying part of the cost for Spanish bridges or Polish metro systems.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

By the way we have flexibility in monetary policy, we are not in the Euro

Indeed, part of the reason our per-capita GDP is higher than that of the Eurozone, which was my point.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

I know the reasons why we did veto, what was proposed was aimed at the Euro Zone, we should have allied with Sweden and demanded the exception, I was showing an example of what happens when we fall out with Europe

Not an option, Sweden had already urinated away their financial services sector with their attempt at it so very little harm left for an FTT to do to them.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

So you want to leave Mainland Europe under German control and us under even stonger USA/China control, we should insted demand more off the EU

I couldn't care less what mainland Europe is doing if we're out of the EU, we would weaken any single other country's influence on us considerably by having a more diverse trading base as we can again return to the WTO table ourselves rather than having the EU there on our behalf tending to the interests of the entire EU rather than the UK specifically.