Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
Nonsense. We would most likely go straight into the EFTA, given that we're a net importer from Europe they wouldn't cut off trade with us nor could they.
Going it alone would be fine - we could, oh I don't know, get back to trading with the Anglosphere and the Commonwealth and former Commonwealth. Australia, Canada, etc, countries on their way up rather than being the world's retirement home, paying up former Eastern Bloc countries with pre-accession subsidies then transference of wealth to tap their younger populations for cheap labour.
Whether you or the Lib Dems or anyone else like it or not we're the 5th largest trading nation in the world. Free of the EU's trade tariffs we could grow trade with traditional partners.
China have considerable sway over the EU anyway, thanks in no small part to their pouring money into EU governments' bonds, in a similar manner to their potential influence over the USA.
The first sentence - no-one could care less who took us into the EU, and can I remind you that what we have right now bares little resemblance to the EEC or the Common Market, as sold to the people as a trade organisation, thanks to Lisbon and other agreements giving the EU and the invisible European Commission, the never directly elected body who in private decide on laws to be rubber stamped by the Parliament, control over several facets of our lives.
I have no idea why leaving the EU would have any impact on the UK's relationship with Ireland. If you're thinking of EU subsidies just think what we would do having our own waters back for UK fishermen, not handing billions over to the EU for foreign farming subsidies and payments to potential and current EU nations.
Please try again.
---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------
Well if you want to see the UK become poorer then sure, because I can assure you that the GDP within the Eurozone is considerably below ours.
Can't think why, loss of flexibility in monetary policy and massive competitiveness gap in order to keep Germany's exports artificially cheap perhaps.
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Let me put it this way, if we are going to leave, it’s going to be rather bitter and I do not think we would be on rather friendly terms to join the EEFA, they are not exactly going to cut trade with us, but it would be harder and less friendly
My point about China is that no matter what we do, we would be under influence from China, so if we don’t want be under anyone’s influence, then don’t bother leaving
Anyway, if you want to create a Commonwealth Economic Area (which is a good idea), then that has to include open borders with all those states (which is a good idea), but these days many of them do not really care much about the UK, Just ask the Indians, Canadians and Australians!
And for god sake, don’t associate me with a shameful party like the Lib Dems
Lastly we did joined the EEC, we knew that it would lead to a USE, after all a TORY PM Winston Churchill said “We need a United States of Europe” (Remember the Tories help create the ECHE, just ask Andrew Neil)
As for Ireland, if we leaving the EU (unless Ireland joins us) would mean there would be border controls on the NI/Eire border, also it would enviably reduce ties and Nationalists (who want a United Ireland) would worry about how it affects NI links with Eire
Then there are the people who receive EU subsidiaries…
By the way we have flexibility in monetary policy, we are not in the Euro
---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh
USE ????
United States of Earth ????  |
United States of Europe
---------- Post added at 15:17 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
I don't want a close relationship with the EU, just one of open trade and movement of people - see Switzerland and Norway.
If you think that had nothing to do with us that just goes to show how seriously your opinions on this matter should be taken, and explains your Europhile nature to some extent. Nice and ignorant just as the Eurocrats would wish people to be.
All Cameron asked for was that the City of London not have a transactions tax put on it, this is absolutely appropriate given that over 80% of the tax Europe-wide would be paid by the UK, and Sweden also oppose such a financial transactions tax because they tried it and it absolutely devastated their financial sector.
FYI These are the European Commission's own numbers:
A long-run (20 year) reduction in gross domestic product in the EU by 0.53% if "mitigating effects" take hold, or up to 1.76 per cent if they don't
Yes, between 0.53% and 1.76% of the entire EU GDP, borne >80% by the UK for the next 20 years.
So the veto was because Cameron asked for protection from having the UK's GDP raped by the EU for a tax that they themselves admit will be economically harmful.
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I know the reasons why we did veto, what was proposed was aimed at the Euro Zone, we should have allied with Sweden and demanded the exception, I was showing an example of what happens when we fall out with Europe
---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius
No why should we when they have failed in everything they do
I want nothing to do with Europe, I don't want there money, I don't want to pay into something we get naff all from and i will certainly vote aggressively against any expansion of the EU, So Alan stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
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So you want to leave Mainland Europe under German control and us under even stonger USA/China control, we should insted demand more off the EU