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Old 06-05-2011, 12:34   #97
Chris
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Re: To AV, or not to AV?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
you do realise scotland isnt using FPTP now right?
I was writing newspaper features on the system used in Scotland and Wales before the devolution referendums were held so yes, I know what manner of election I have just participated in and I'm pretty confident I have a better grasp of the precise calculations used to make the results proportional than most bystanders.

The really remarkable thing about the results in Scotland today is the number of constituency seats they have swiped, mostly off Labour in supposedly safe labour areas like Glasgow.

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Your blinkered view and faith in FPTP is scary, you really dont understand the true nature of the beast.
I assure you, I do. Please don't assume that the only people who disagree with you are the ones that don't understand. Some people - I believe we are about to discover a majority of people - believe that whatever its flaws, FPTP's benefits are ultimately of greater value.

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Yes safe seats will ocassionaly change it doesnt change the fact tho that votes above the winning margin are wasted and votes for the loser are wasted. Leading to a result that isnt proportional to the votes cast, the 2010 election showed this greatly when the lib dems had almost as much votes as labour but got way less seats.

http://www.yorkforvotingreform.org.uk/fair.htm

check the bottom graph on that page. In 2010 the lib dems needed almost 3 times as many votes to win a seat than the 2 main parties. Yet you posting rubbish saying every vote is equal.
No, the Lib Dems did not need three times as many votes to win a seat. For each seat won, only the votes within that constituency counted. The votes from elsewhere in the country did not contribute and were not 'needed'.

This is one of the problems with the pro-PR argument: in order to make its argument it has to describe British parliamentary elections in terms other than what they actually are. When you vote at a General Election you do not vote in a national referendum on which Party you want to win. You vote for your local representative to the Commons.

The pro-PR argument relies on the view that the Party make-up of the chamber is ultimately the most important thing (even STV, the ERS's preferred method, ultimately is about balancing representation of Parties rather than assuring that each area of the country has a locally accountable representative).

I fundamentally disagree with the view that a homogenized Commons chamber made up of blocs of different colours is the prsim through which we should view our election process. I acknowledge that this is pretty much where we have got to in our present political life, and I acknowledge that this feeds the argument in favour of adopting an electoral system better matched to that situation.

But I still contend that those who seek change would do better to engage with the political process and seek to support independently-minded candidates rather than campaigning for an electoral system that would merely serve to lock the worst aspects of the anonymous party machine into our political life forever.

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Incidently I think elections shouldnt have any leaflet posting, the only campaigning should be candidates knocking on doors speaking to voters personally, the only tv coverage should be live debates.
I would like to have been doorstepped during this election, but as I live in a fairly remote location I'm not surprised that all I got was leaflets, and I'd rather have leaflets than nothing.
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